| Author | Messages | |
nocmonkey
Posts:0
 | | 12/10/2007 4:55 AM |
| Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks. | | | |
| beads
Posts:22
| | 12/10/2007 5:13 AM |
| Never plug two UPSes together in serial
- very bad idea.
One UPS for each power supply should
be sufficient.
As for the UPS software I believe that
APC's deluxe version of PowerChute checks for this but maybe dependant
on some configuring. You'd have to check both equipment manufacturers specifications
and/or support channels for specifics. There can be a great deal of leeway
as to how Eaton may handle this situation versus APC and vice-a-versa.
Danny
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
12/10/2007 03:55 PM
Please respond to
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
cc
Subject
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies
+ UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question on how you handle redundant
power supplies from a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would
be setup to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate
with server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server
A, and UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
Message scanned by TrendMicro
Message scanned by TrendMicro | | | |
| EricGustafson
Posts:34
| | 12/10/2007 5:18 AM |
| Are your UPS’s backed by a generator? If so, the point should be
moot. If not I would make sure that your UPS management software is
aware/capable of handling both UPS devices as a team.
--Eric
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Danny
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks. | | | |
| bdesmond
Posts:415
| | 12/10/2007 5:25 AM |
| I assume you’re implying a consumer type UPS rather than a commercial
datacenter one and that this circuit isn’t backed by a generator and transfer
switch?
My suggestion is that you only protect one of the two power
supplies with a UPS if you have redundant PSUs in your server. The chances of a
power failure and a power supply failure happening at the same time are pretty
low IMO. Assuming you have good monitoring you’ll know when a PSU fails.
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c - 312.731.3132
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Danny
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks. | | | |
| robertsingers
Posts:155
| | 12/10/2007 6:18 AM |
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You could do that but what is likely to happen is when you
do have a power outage all of the servers start screaming about the power
supplies with no power. It can make it very hard to think or spot other
issues when you're in the room and it's happening.
There's generally no issues with splitting the power
supplies across two UPSes and having each UPS shutdown a specific group of
servers.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Brian
DesmondSent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 11:26 a.m.To:
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant
power supplies + UPS hardware
I
assume you’re implying a consumer type UPS rather than a commercial datacenter
one and that this circuit isn’t backed by a generator and transfer
switch?
My
suggestion is that you only protect one of the two power supplies with a UPS if
you have redundant PSUs in your server. The chances of a power failure and a
power supply failure happening at the same time are pretty low IMO. Assuming you
have good monitoring you’ll know when a PSU fails.
Thanks,
Brian
Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c -
312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org]
On Behalf Of DannySent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56
PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: [ActiveDir] OT:
Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal
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| bdesmond
Posts:415
| | 12/10/2007 6:27 AM |
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Just costs more and more of a rats nest of cabling to figure
out.
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c - 312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Singers
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:18 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
You could do that but what is likely to happen is when you do have
a power outage all of the servers start screaming about the power supplies with
no power. It can make it very hard to think or spot other issues when
you're in the room and it's happening.
There's generally no issues with splitting the power supplies
across two UPSes and having each UPS shutdown a specific group of servers.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Brian Desmond
Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 11:26 a.m.
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
I assume you’re implying a consumer type UPS rather than a
commercial datacenter one and that this circuit isn’t backed by a generator and
transfer switch?
My suggestion is that you only protect one of the two power supplies
with a UPS if you have redundant PSUs in your server. The chances of a power
failure and a power supply failure happening at the same time are pretty low
IMO. Assuming you have good monitoring you’ll know when a PSU fails.
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c - 312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On
Behalf Of Danny
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared
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Please Note:
The information contained in this email message and any attached files may
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All technical opinions are offered on a ?no-liability? basis. This message and
any files transmitted with it areconfidential and solely for the use of
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have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by reply email
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| robertsingers
Posts:155
| | 12/10/2007 6:35 AM |
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There's no difference in cabling. The PDUs in your
racks have to be powered from somewhere. Whether that's a UPS or mains
power. Those cables should be running under the floor or up to a cable
tray. And Rat's nest - they're created by lazy people, not by being
thorough.
As for the cost depending on the size et al, it may be
immaterial.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Brian
DesmondSent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 p.m.To:
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant
power supplies + UPS hardware
Just
costs more and more of a rats nest of cabling to figure out.
Thanks,
Brian
Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c -
312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org]
On Behalf Of Robert SingersSent: Monday, December 10, 2007
6:18 PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE:
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS
hardware
You
could do that but what is likely to happen is when you do have a power outage
all of the servers start screaming about the power supplies with no power.
It can make it very hard to think or spot other issues when you're in the room
and it's happening.
There's
generally no issues with splitting the power supplies across two UPSes and
having each UPS shutdown a specific group of servers.
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org]
On Behalf Of Brian DesmondSent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007
11:26 a.m.To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE:
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
I
assume you’re implying a consumer type UPS rather than a commercial datacenter
one and that this circuit isn’t backed by a generator and transfer
switch?
My
suggestion is that you only protect one of the two power supplies with a UPS if
you have redundant PSUs in your server. The chances of a power failure and a
power supply failure happening at the same time are pretty low IMO. Assuming you
have good monitoring you’ll know when a PSU fails.
Thanks,
Brian
Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c -
312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org]
On Behalf Of DannySent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56
PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: [ActiveDir] OT:
Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared
by NetIQ MailMarshal
Please Note:
The information contained in this email message and any attached files may be
confidential and subject to privilege. Any opinions expressed in this message
are not necessarily those of the Department of Building and Housing. All
technical opinions are offered on a ?no-liability? basis. This message and any
files transmitted with it areconfidential and solely for the use of the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that
any use, disclosure or copying of this email is unauthorised. If you have
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delete the original and any attachment(s). Thank you.
Please Note:
The information contained in this email message and any attached files may be
confidential and subject to privilege. Any opinions expressed in this message
are not necessarily those of the Department of Building and Housing. All
technical opinions are offered on a ?no-liability? basis. This message and any
files transmitted with it areconfidential and solely for the use of the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that
any use, disclosure or copying of this email is unauthorised. If you have
received this email in error, please notify us immediately by reply email and
delete the original and any attachment(s). Thank you. | | | |
| mbarker
Posts:13
| | 12/10/2007 9:21 AM |
| If you’re not fortunate enough to have a grade A server
room on full battery with diesel generator then I’d suggest something
more robust than a simple “smart” UPS. Something like the APC
Symmetra that supports an N+1 architecture of batteries and power units. We
have a bunch of these (4kva models) in our wiring closets and they’ve
been good to us. All the better UPS makers have something similar.
Myself, I’m fortunate enough to not have to worry about
it. We have two Liebert PDUs in our room on full battery connected to two
different municipal power grids and then diesel behind that.
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On
Behalf Of Danny
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks. | | | |
| mbarker
Posts:13
| | 12/10/2007 9:24 AM |
| v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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Been there before. Were I work we refer to that situation
as a ‘pager bomb’. So many notices coming in you don’t know your
head from your other end…
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Singers
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 6:18 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
You could do that but what is likely to happen is when you do have
a power outage all of the servers start screaming about the power supplies with
no power. It can make it very hard to think or spot other issues when
you're in the room and it's happening.
There's generally no issues with splitting the power supplies
across two UPSes and having each UPS shutdown a specific group of servers.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Brian Desmond
Sent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 11:26 a.m.
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
I assume you’re implying a consumer type UPS rather than a
commercial datacenter one and that this circuit isn’t backed by a
generator and transfer switch?
My suggestion is that you only protect one of the two power supplies
with a UPS if you have redundant PSUs in your server. The chances of a power
failure and a power supply failure happening at the same time are pretty low
IMO. Assuming you have good monitoring you’ll know when a PSU fails.
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c - 312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On
Behalf Of Danny
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared
by NetIQ MailMarshal
Please Note:
The information contained in this email message and any attached files may
be confidential and subject to privilege. Any opinions expressed in this
message are not necessarily those of the Department of Building and Housing.
All technical opinions are offered on a ‘no-liability’ basis. This
message and any files transmitted with it areconfidential and solely for
the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are notified that any use, disclosure or copying of this email is
unauthorised. If you have received this email in error, please notify us
immediately by reply email and delete the original and any attachment(s). Thank
you. | | | |
| nocmonkey
Posts:0
| | 12/10/2007 11:14 AM |
| Thanks everyone for your feedback. To answer your questions, I should have stated the application was small-medium sized business without their own generator. I'll proceed and make sure that everything is configured properly, tested, and documented.
...DOn Dec 10, 2007 6:35 PM, Robert Singers wrote:
There's no difference in cabling. The PDUs in your
racks have to be powered from somewhere. Whether that's a UPS or mains
power. Those cables should be running under the floor or up to a cable
tray. And Rat's nest - they're created by lazy people, not by being
thorough.
As for the cost depending on the size et al, it may be
immaterial.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Brian
DesmondSent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:27 p.m.To:
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT: Redundant
power supplies + UPS hardware
Just
costs more and more of a rats nest of cabling to figure out.
Thanks,
Brian
Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c -
312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
]
On Behalf Of Robert SingersSent: Monday, December 10, 2007
6:18 PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE:
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS
hardware
You
could do that but what is likely to happen is when you do have a power outage
all of the servers start screaming about the power supplies with no power.
It can make it very hard to think or spot other issues when you're in the room
and it's happening.
There's
generally no issues with splitting the power supplies across two UPSes and
having each UPS shutdown a specific group of servers.
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
]
On Behalf Of Brian DesmondSent: Tuesday, 11 December 2007
11:26 a.m.To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE:
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
I
assume you're implying a consumer type UPS rather than a commercial datacenter
one and that this circuit isn't backed by a generator and transfer
switch?
My
suggestion is that you only protect one of the two power supplies with a UPS if
you have redundant PSUs in your server. The chances of a power failure and a
power supply failure happening at the same time are pretty low IMO. Assuming you
have good monitoring you'll know when a PSU fails.
Thanks,
Brian
Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com
c -
312.731.3132
From:
ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
]
On Behalf Of DannySent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:56
PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: [ActiveDir] OT:
Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question onhow you handle redundant
power suppliesfrom a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup
to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate with
server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and
UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared
by NetIQ MailMarshal
Please Note:
The information contained in this email message and any attached files may be
confidential and subject to privilege. Any opinions expressed in this message
are not necessarily those of the Department of Building and Housing. All
technical opinions are offered on a ?no-liability? basis. This message and any
files transmitted with it areconfidential and solely for the use of the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that
any use, disclosure or copying of this email is unauthorised. If you have
received this email in error, please notify us immediately by reply email and
delete the original and any attachment(s). Thank you.
Please Note:
The information contained in this email message and any attached files may be
confidential and subject to privilege. Any opinions expressed in this message
are not necessarily those of the Department of Building and Housing. All
technical opinions are offered on a 'no-liability' basis. This message and any
files transmitted with it areconfidential and solely for the use of the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that
any use, disclosure or copying of this email is unauthorised. If you have
received this email in error, please notify us immediately by reply email and
delete the original and any attachment(s). Thank you.
-- CPDE - Certified Petroleum Distribution EngineerCCBC - Certified Canadian Beer Consumer | | | |
| AFidel
Posts:75
| | 12/11/2007 3:55 AM |
| Ideally you do dual PSU's going to redundant
UPS's each powered by a separate generator (and even more ideally by separate
utility feeds, but this is often not practical for small sites). I personally
don't let my servers shutdown from UPS command, the UPS pages the rotation
pager and we have enough runtime to make sure we can do a manual clean
shutdown if the generators don't kick on for some reason. Another thing
to make sure is that your cooling is on generator, a modern datacenter
will overheat quite quickly without cooling.
Thanks,
Andrew
Danny
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
12/10/2007 04:57 PM
Please respond to
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
cc
Subject
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies
+ UPS hardware
Sorry for the OT. Question on how you handle redundant
power supplies from a power source/UPS point of view. For example, do you
plug one power supply into UPS A and the other into UPS B? UPS A would
be setup to communicate with the server A. UPS B would be setup to communicate
with server B. In the event of a power failure, UPS A would shutdown server
A, and UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks. | | | |
| robertsingers
Posts:155
| | 12/11/2007 5:45 AM |
| I'd have to disagree with out. My experience has been
that when your generator fails due to whatever reason then your air con also
fails. So if the you don't have your UPS begin to shut things down after a
reasonable interval for the generator to be going you have devices
cook.
I've also tended to have as many servers shut down as
possible to leave as much battery as possible to keep the core network
going.
It's also pretty hard to perform a manual shutdown if
you're stuck in a lift.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of
AFidel@ddrc.comSent: Wednesday, 12 December 2007 9:56
a.m.To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: Re:
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power supplies + UPS hardware
Ideally you do dual PSU's going to
redundant UPS's each powered by a separate generator (and even more ideally by
separate utility feeds, but this is often not practical for small sites). I
personally don't let my servers shutdown from UPS command, the UPS pages the
rotation pager and we have enough runtime to make sure we can do a manual clean
shutdown if the generators don't kick on for some reason. Another thing to make
sure is that your cooling is on generator, a modern datacenter will overheat
quite quickly without cooling. Thanks, Andrew
Danny
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
12/10/2007 04:57 PM
Please respond
toActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
cc
Subject
[ActiveDir] OT: Redundant power
supplies + UPS hardware
Sorry
for the OT. Question on how you handle redundant power supplies from a power
source/UPS point of view. For example, do you plug one power supply into UPS A
and the other into UPS B? UPS A would be setup to communicate with the server A.
UPS B would be setup to communicate with server B. In the event of a power
failure, UPS A would shutdown server A, and UPS B would shutdown server B, etc.
Thanks.
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