List Archives

This forum is an archive of all posts to our mailing list over the past few years. The forum is set read only therefore to contribute you will need to join our list community. See more info about this here.

When subscribed to the list you should use your standard email client to send your posts to ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org.

List Archives

Unanswered Active Topics

Forums Search

Forums >ActiveDir Mail List Archive >List Archives

Subject: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes

Prev Next

You are not authorized to post a reply.

Author

Messages

ZJORZ

Posts:133

11/05/2005 1:00 AM
FYI Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 Cheers, Jorge This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

sbradcpa

Posts:354

11/05/2005 5:09 AM
Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: FYI Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 Cheers, Jorge This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/06/2005 3:05 AM
Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/06/2005 3:07 AM
Ken, I agree completely. What I find very interesting in reading this KB is that it appears that the problem did NOT exist pre-Windows Server 2003 SP1, and that a series of very specific conditions need to be met. The third seems to be the element that makes this more unlikely to occur - "The scenario involves approximately 1000 simultaneous delete, create, or extend operations on files". What I find most interesting about this KB, and kudos to our stress team - is it seems that we discovered this internally and that no scale of customer impact seems to have occurred. (I don't know this for fact to be true - I just suspect it to be so because some of the Lists that I monitor internally haven't notified us of a large scale impact.) Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 12:26 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Frankly my expectation from a file system that's marked as being robust and enterprise ready is that you should lose nothing if the drive is "almost full", and the file system should shut down gracefully if the drive is full, especially in normal situations. Sysadmins should not have to worry that they'll lose data to corruption if the drive is "almost full" in the normal course of events. If you're doing something like the extreme use cases noted in the KB article, then that's possibly a different situation, but in that type of situation you're probably monitoring your disks with an eagle eye anyway. Additionally, Microsoft is correct to warn that a potential issue does exist. Cheers Ken -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 3:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: >FYI > >Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 > >Cheers, >Jorge List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/06/2005 4:19 AM
Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma is floating down the river with a canary on her head. That's why we say things like: "A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive has a problem. I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: >FYI > >Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 > >Cheers, >Jorge > > >This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

sbradcpa

Posts:354

11/06/2005 4:31 AM
Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma is floating down the river with a canary on her head. That's why we say things like: "A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive has a problem. I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: FYI Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 Cheers, Jorge This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

AD000001335 User is Offline

Posts:0

11/06/2005 4:58 AM
Not that he isn't clever and funny, but I don't think George Carlin has written any new material in 20 years. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:19 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma is floating down the river with a canary on her head. That's why we say things like: "A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive has a problem. I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: >FYI > >Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 > >Cheers, >Jorge > > >This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

ken

Posts:59

11/06/2005 6:26 AM
Frankly my expectation from a file system that's marked as being robust and enterprise ready is that you should lose nothing if the drive is "almost full", and the file system should shut down gracefully if the drive is full, especially in normal situations. Sysadmins should not have to worry that they'll lose data to corruption if the drive is "almost full" in the normal course of events. If you're doing something like the extreme use cases noted in the KB article, then that's possibly a different situation, but in that type of situation you're probably monitoring your disks with an eagle eye anyway. Additionally, Microsoft is correct to warn that a potential issue does exist. Cheers Ken -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 3:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: >FYI > >Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 > >Cheers, >Jorge List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/06/2005 9:18 AM
All - I've been informed by more than a few folks on this list that I am, for the most part, completely and utterly wrong on this topic. I apologize for any and all misinformation that I have conveyed, and will refrain from posting on topics that I don't have complete and total knowledge of the full circumstances surrounding the issue. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:06 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ken, I agree completely. What I find very interesting in reading this KB is that it appears that the problem did NOT exist pre-Windows Server 2003 SP1, and that a series of very specific conditions need to be met. The third seems to be the element that makes this more unlikely to occur - "The scenario involves approximately 1000 simultaneous delete, create, or extend operations on files". What I find most interesting about this KB, and kudos to our stress team - is it seems that we discovered this internally and that no scale of customer impact seems to have occurred. (I don't know this for fact to be true - I just suspect it to be so because some of the Lists that I monitor internally haven't notified us of a large scale impact.) Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 12:26 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Frankly my expectation from a file system that's marked as being robust and enterprise ready is that you should lose nothing if the drive is "almost full", and the file system should shut down gracefully if the drive is full, especially in normal situations. Sysadmins should not have to worry that they'll lose data to corruption if the drive is "almost full" in the normal course of events. If you're doing something like the extreme use cases noted in the KB article, then that's possibly a different situation, but in that type of situation you're probably monitoring your disks with an eagle eye anyway. Additionally, Microsoft is correct to warn that a potential issue does exist. Cheers Ken -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 3:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: >FYI > >Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 > >Cheers, >Jorge List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

sbradcpa

Posts:354

11/06/2005 9:35 AM
Being blonde every now and then comes with technology. Rick Kingslan wrote: All - I've been informed by more than a few folks on this list that I am, for the most part, completely and utterly wrong on this topic. I apologize for any and all misinformation that I have conveyed, and will refrain from posting on topics that I don't have complete and total knowledge of the full circumstances surrounding the issue. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:06 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ken, I agree completely. What I find very interesting in reading this KB is that it appears that the problem did NOT exist pre-Windows Server 2003 SP1, and that a series of very specific conditions need to be met. The third seems to be the element that makes this more unlikely to occur - "The scenario involves approximately 1000 simultaneous delete, create, or extend operations on files". What I find most interesting about this KB, and kudos to our stress team - is it seems that we discovered this internally and that no scale of customer impact seems to have occurred. (I don't know this for fact to be true - I just suspect it to be so because some of the Lists that I monitor internally haven't notified us of a large scale impact.) Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 12:26 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Frankly my expectation from a file system that's marked as being robust and enterprise ready is that you should lose nothing if the drive is "almost full", and the file system should shut down gracefully if the drive is full, especially in normal situations. Sysadmins should not have to worry that they'll lose data to corruption if the drive is "almost full" in the normal course of events. If you're doing something like the extreme use cases noted in the KB article, then that's possibly a different situation, but in that type of situation you're probably monitoring your disks with an eagle eye anyway. Additionally, Microsoft is correct to warn that a potential issue does exist. Cheers Ken -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Sunday, 6 November 2005 3:08 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Is it me or is that a dumb KB? "A volume is full or almost full." Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too tight drive. Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: FYI Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive stress tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 Cheers, Jorge List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

AD000001335 User is Offline

Posts:0

11/07/2005 5:28 AM
The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/07/2005 8:12 AM
Ed - With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah, blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you. Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want to be a valued member of the list - try being nice. Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list. I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts. Who ARE you, anyway? Rick -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

michael@xxxx.yyy

11/07/2005 9:45 AM
Wow, that's pretty harsh, don't you think? Are only MS employees and Directory Services MVPs allowed to make smart-ass comments or have opinions? Ed is a very well known and well respected Exchange MVP. And he happens to be right, in my opinion. Any Exchange administrator should be well aware of what the status of his last backup was. And if it failed, he should be fixing it. And if he doesn't, then he is at fault if any problems arise due to that. A log volume filling up because of a failed backup is pure negligence. -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:11 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ed - With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah, blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you. Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want to be a valued member of the list - try being nice. Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list. I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts. Who ARE you, anyway? Rick -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

deji

Posts:152

11/07/2005 10:17 AM
Not in defense of Rick ...but ..... I think his reaction stems from the history of THIS list. IMO, this list tended to refrain from caustic/sarcastic responses as much as possible. I think Ed's style is "unique" to this list. It does play well on the Exchange List, but it becomes a "culture shock" of sort to people who have been on ActiveDir for long. Sincerely, Dèjì Akómöláfé, MCSE+M MCSA+M MCT Microsoft MVP - Directory Services www.readymaids.com - we know IT www.akomolafe.com Do you now realize that Today is the Tomorrow you were worried about Yesterday? -anon ________________________________ From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Michael B. Smith Sent: Mon 11/7/2005 1:33 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Wow, that's pretty harsh, don't you think? Are only MS employees and Directory Services MVPs allowed to make smart-ass comments or have opinions? Ed is a very well known and well respected Exchange MVP. And he happens to be right, in my opinion. Any Exchange administrator should be well aware of what the status of his last backup was. And if it failed, he should be fixing it. And if he doesn't, then he is at fault if any problems arise due to that. A log volume filling up because of a failed backup is pure negligence. -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:11 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ed - With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah, blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you. Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want to be a valued member of the list - try being nice. Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list. I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts. Who ARE you, anyway? Rick -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

AD000001335 User is Offline

Posts:0

11/07/2005 11:26 AM
Rick - I was replying to your assertion: "Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all." An admin may not be at fault because a backup doesn't occur, with that I agree. However, an admin not knowing that the scheduled backups did not occur and not monitoring that the log volume sufficiently to know that it is running out of space is very much at fault. I didn't say anything about beating; that would solely be at your discretion. As to my George Carlin remark, it was intended to be sarcasticly humorous; I apologize if it missed the mark in your perception, and to anyone else on this list who might have been offended by it. I'm an eight-or-nine-year Exchange MVP, and a senior technology consultant for a large multinational technology corporation. I joined this list because a fellow Exchange MVP recommended it as being THE place to discuss Active Directory. Nice to meet you. Who are you? Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:11 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ed - With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah, blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you. Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want to be a valued member of the list - try being nice. Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list. I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts. Who ARE you, anyway? Rick -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/07/2005 11:44 AM
Taking offline... I only berate joe in public... (he fights nasty, too. Spits, eye gouges, hair pulling and all...) Forgot about that when I replied earlier. Rick -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:25 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Rick - I was replying to your assertion: "Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all." An admin may not be at fault because a backup doesn't occur, with that I agree. However, an admin not knowing that the scheduled backups did not occur and not monitoring that the log volume sufficiently to know that it is running out of space is very much at fault. I didn't say anything about beating; that would solely be at your discretion. As to my George Carlin remark, it was intended to be sarcasticly humorous; I apologize if it missed the mark in your perception, and to anyone else on this list who might have been offended by it. I'm an eight-or-nine-year Exchange MVP, and a senior technology consultant for a large multinational technology corporation. I joined this list because a fellow Exchange MVP recommended it as being THE place to discuss Active Directory. Nice to meet you. Who are you? Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:11 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ed - With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah, blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you. Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want to be a valued member of the list - try being nice. Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list. I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts. Who ARE you, anyway? Rick -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

rkingsla@xxxx.yyy

11/07/2005 11:46 AM
BTW - just so no one thinks anything different, I was a bit harsh with Ed. Apologies from me are, well, too often these days. I'm not going to burden the list with this.... This one thread has gone WAAAAY too far. I would ask that it be allowed to die. Thanks. Rick -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:25 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Rick - I was replying to your assertion: "Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all." An admin may not be at fault because a backup doesn't occur, with that I agree. However, an admin not knowing that the scheduled backups did not occur and not monitoring that the log volume sufficiently to know that it is running out of space is very much at fault. I didn't say anything about beating; that would solely be at your discretion. As to my George Carlin remark, it was intended to be sarcasticly humorous; I apologize if it missed the mark in your perception, and to anyone else on this list who might have been offended by it. I'm an eight-or-nine-year Exchange MVP, and a senior technology consultant for a large multinational technology corporation. I joined this list because a fellow Exchange MVP recommended it as being THE place to discuss Active Directory. Nice to meet you. Who are you? Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:11 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Ed - With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah, blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you. Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want to be a valued member of the list - try being nice. Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list. I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts. Who ARE you, anyway? Rick -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP] Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss. Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to respond.) Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know. Rick [msft] -- Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... -----Original Message----- From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on NTFS volumes Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head. At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives. Rick Kingslan wrote: >Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, improved" >view of the way that Microsoft communicates things, no - it doesn't >seem to be very dumb at all. The statement and the KB, that is. > >At this moment, I'm watching George Carlin's new HBO special. He >relates that he's always interested when it's flood season in the >Midwest. The same people that got flooded out last year get flooded >out this year, repaint, re-carpet and move back in. > >Next season - it will be the same thing. They just won't understand >that if they live on the flood plain, you can't complain that Grandma >is floating down the river with a canary on her head. > >That's why we say things like: > >"A volume is full or almost full." your NTFS just MIGHT have problems. > >Because there are just those same folks on the Midwest flood plain that >will call PSS really upset that their full or almost full NTFS drive >has a problem. > >I'm not saying that the people that call are stupid. I am saying that >most Insurance policies and contracts, as well as EULAs - have a ton of >words and verbiage that only the well trained lawyer can understand >because folks are just.... well, litigious. And, you have to address >the obvious because in segments of the population - the obvious - isn't. > >Rick [msft] >-- >Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ... > > >-----Original Message----- >From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, >CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 11:08 AM >To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption >on NTFS volumes > >Is it me or is that a dumb KB? > >"A volume is full or almost full." > >Yeah data will start getting screwed up when you have that situation. >In SBSland we lose our CAL licenses and other such fun things on a too >tight drive. > > > >Almeida Pinto, Jorge de wrote: > > > >>FYI >> >>Potential file corruption problem on NTFS volumes during extensive >>stress >> >> >tests in Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 > > >>http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;909360 >> >>Cheers, >>Jorge >> >> >>This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended >> >> >recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential >information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be >copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are >not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and >any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you. > > >>List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>List archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > >List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >List archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ > > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/

bdesmond

Posts:416

11/07/2005 11:49 AM

This is a great place to discuss AD. Many of us who participate in this DL
actively are good friends and often chat outside of here - we know each
other's personalities, etc.

When you're new someplace, at least in my opinion, it's not worth walking in
and acting like hot shit on the first day. Get to know the people here and
the culture on this list. As someone else said, generally the attitude of
this list is not smart ass commentary. When it is, it's those of us who are
friends making fun of each other.

Pissing off people who are respected and long time members of a community
you're new to is not the best way to get your foot in IMHO.
Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

c - 312.731.3132

-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP]
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 6:25 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on
NTFS volumes

Rick -

I was replying to your assertion:

"Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds your log files might
experience this issue with no fault of the admin at all."

An admin may not be at fault because a backup doesn't occur, with that I
agree. However, an admin not knowing that the scheduled backups did not
occur and not monitoring that the log volume sufficiently to know that it is
running out of space is very much at fault. I didn't say anything about
beating; that would solely be at your discretion.

As to my George Carlin remark, it was intended to be sarcasticly humorous; I
apologize if it missed the mark in your perception, and to anyone else on
this list who might have been offended by it.

I'm an eight-or-nine-year Exchange MVP, and a senior technology consultant
for a large multinational technology corporation. I joined this list
because a fellow Exchange MVP recommended it as being THE place to discuss
Active Directory. Nice to meet you. Who are you?

Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP
Freelance E-Mail Philosopher
Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T

-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 12:11 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on
NTFS volumes

Ed -

With all due respect, both posts that you've made in response to this thread
have been negative (George Carlin hasn't written anything original... Blah,
blah...) and the fact that I mention that I should beat my admin because of
missing a backup. How I choose to treat my employees is my business.

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to defend myself to you.

Please. If you have nothing of value to add - don't respond. If you want
to be a valued member of the list - try being nice.

Or, if it's just me you don't like - filter me out of your list.

I really don't appreciate the off-handed, single thought retorts.

Who ARE you, anyway?

Rick
--
Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ...

-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Crowley [MVP]
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:28 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on
NTFS volumes

The admin is not at fault because he wasn't aware that the backup didn't
complete? You're an awfully forgiving boss.

Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP
Freelance E-Mail Philosopher
Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T

-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rick Kingslan
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:04 AM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on
NTFS volumes

Work with Exchange much? Miss one or two backups and that volume that holds
your log files might experience this issue with no fault of the admin at
all. (Well, except for the fact that your backup system didn't page the
person in charge to notify it didn't run... Or, that person chose not to
respond.)

Regardless... Poo-poo happens. At least, now they know.

Rick [msft]
--
Posting is provided "AS IS", and confers no rights or warranties ...

-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA
aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:30 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FYI: MS-KBQ909360 - Potential file corruption on
NTFS volumes

Not dumb for Microsoft.... dumb for the Admin to get the drive in that
condition and need a KB to wack them upside the head.

At the end of the day... it's my responsibility for my network. I won't be
complaining to Microsoft that they didn't warn me that bad things might
happen if I don't keep nice breathing room on my drives.

Rick Kingslan wrote:

>Hmmm. I guess I see this in a different light. In my "new, im

Syndicate

Friends

List Archives

List Archives