| Author | Messages | |
michael@xxxx.yyy
 | | 12/01/2005 4:01 AM |
| There is no way for MS to think of every eventuality and to support
every possibility that a customer (or even a large group of customers)
may want and/or desire.
At NT4 and before, if that was the case, you were pretty much SOL;
unless you could do some pretty heavy C-or-C++ coding.
Starting with Windows 2000, greatly improved with Windows Server 2003,
and [drool] revolutionally improved with Monad -- you could script
things yourself without having to be a rocket-scientist.
I'll take a script, that I can review and correct if necessary, before a
wizard written by someone with SBS in mind. :-)
M
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:31 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer...sorta wandering off into
Scripting
But why reinvent the wheel individually when we should be asking
Microsoft to either fix the wheel or build us a wheel in the first
place? If it's a task that is repetitively done, has value, is used
over and over again, I'd rather trust a gui wizard/console/button that's
gone through beta testing by various testers that lays down an audit log
file than a home grown script [no offense guys] that I'd have to go get
interpreted.
Take the Security configuration wizard for example.. versus your own
home grown version of the same. I'll take the SCW because I can see and
confirm the resulting XML file, the program has been through beta
testing process so in my brain I assign it a bit of lesser testing
resources.
For my space, I trust the gui way more than I do a script from a web
site that possibly wasn't built with SBS in mind.
But the gang that does Scripting drools over Monad. So get ready for
Scripting on steriods.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2ac59b30-5a44-4
782-b0b7-79fe2efd1280&displaylang=en
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=8a3c71d1-18e5-4
9d7-952a-c55d694ecee3&displaylang=en
David Cliffe wrote:
>Well, I just think that most of the people in the command line and/or
>scripting "camp" like to encourage others to learn to use them simply
>because they feel it's to your benefit. I don't think they really like
>to promote the "you're not a real admin..." sentiment. Or at least I
>hope not :-) Right now in my org, I'm in the minority using the CLI.
>I just prefer working that way and don't knock my colleagues for their
>methods, but rather show them other ways to get at the info they need.
>
>CLI and scripting fosters your knowledge of what's happening in the
>background, helps you learn the product and truly is a great way to
>automate tasks! (if not THE way)
>
>For the longest time I've been meaning to learn VBscript, but haven't
>devoted enough time to go for it yet. From what I've seen so far, it
>scares me :-P but I still intend to give it a shot. I've been
>getting by with Perl and CMD shell for now (I came from a KSH/*nix
background).
>Have you seen some of the sample command shell scripts Dean has put
>together? Or the stuff that Alain Lissoir can do with WMI? Wow!
>
>Anyway, this topic has drifted further now, but I'm going to resist the
>urge to change the subject line. The last time I did that, we had a
>little side bit just on the fact that the subject line changed! :-D
>
>-DaveC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Rocky Habeeb
>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:18 PM
>To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>
>Susan,
>
>"THANK YOU
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
>!!!!
>!!!!!!!!!!!"
>
>There are a >LOTAdmins use the GUI. Some believe that you're not a real Admin if you
>do. I do. I have to. I can't allocate time to learn scripting right
>now because I'm overworked as is. I'll just leave it at that.
>
>RH
>______________________________________________
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Susan Bradley,
>CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:09 PM
>To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>
>
>
>
>If the task is that trivial
>If the benefit is so great
>Why isn't it part of the AD snap ins as a one button task?
>
>button instead>
>
>David Adner wrote:
>
>
>>I'm not debating the effort it takes to make the change. I'm saying I
>>
>>
>don't
>
>
>>see the point in devoting whatever amount of effort it takes for
>>something that's going to provide benefit only, IMO, an extremely rare
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>case. And if that case happened, the corrective action is also a
>>trivial process. And again, I'm not saying I don't see your point; I
>>
>>
>just don't agree with it.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bahta
>>>Nathaniel V Contractor NASIC/SCNA
>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:32 PM
>>>To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>
>>>That process is trivial in itself. It does not take much to transfer
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>the roles before you conduct maintenance on a server. Why not do it?
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>It will save you cleaning up metadata after you seize a role of a
>>>failed operations master. Sounds like a stitch in nine saves time
>>>concept to me. I do not intend on taking every proactive measure
>>>either, but when it comes to the small and quickly implemented
>>>measures that could save plenty of time, I try to utilize all of them
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>available.
>>>
>>>Is that agreeable?
>>>
>>>Nathaniel Vincent Bahta
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Adner
>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:24 PM
>>>To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>
>>>Any proper maintenance plan has a backout plan and a recovery plan,
>>>so I am preparing for the possibility of an unexpected problem. If
>>>I'm pulled into a dark room because something goes wrong then I
>>>should feel confident I'll leave that room with my hide mostly
>>>intact; it may be slightly singed, but I can live with that. If
>>>management isn't the reasonable type then that's a different issue.
>>>
>>>If your philosophy is to take every proactive measure ahead of time
>>>possible, then that's fine. I just don't see the point with regards
>>>to FSMO roles when the recovery action is a relatively trivial
>>>process. This is obviously a matter of personal preference so I'm
>>>not trying to convince others to change. I just found the concept
>>>unusual so I thought I'd share.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>>>neil.ruston@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 10:16 AM
>>>>To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>>
>>>>I would rather, as stated earlier, assess the risk and then act
>>>>appropriately. The original poster never defined 'maintenance' in
>>>>detail.
>>>>
>>>>The original post did state that the box would be down for ~2 hours
>>>>for maintenance. This is clearly more than a patch and a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>reboot. We've
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>been over that scenario and concluded that it carries a lesser risk.
>>>>
>>>>As joe said, if the maintenance all goes badly wrong, do
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>you want to
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>be pulled into a dark room and questioned as to why you did not
>>>>prepare for that eventuality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>neil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan
>>>>Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]
>>>>Sent: 30 November 2005 15:29
>>>>To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>>
>>>>Okay define maintenance please?
>>>>
>>>>Patching?
>>>>Service Pack?
>>>>Applying QFEs?
>>>>Performance tuning?
>>>>What?
>>>>
>>>>Is there a level of maintenance that would cause you to move FSMO's
>>>>and not?
>>>>
>>>>Like for example, if I'm patching, I've tested the patch, I'm
>>>>reasonably expecting a favorable outcome otherwise I wouldn't be
>>>>deploying, I have a backup.
>>>>
>>>>neil.ruston@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I think we've missed the essence of the original post :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>The DCs are
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>not just being rebooted, they are being 'maintained' and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>will be down
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>for ~ 2 hours. That means to me, that either a s/w or h/w
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>change is
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>going to occur which could go horribly wrong. Faced with this
>>>>>situation, I would definitely transfer the roles.
>>>>>If the DC were merely being rebooted and nothing else is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>scheduled to
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>occur, I would not transfer roles.
>>>>>The above 2 scenarios are very different - if one were to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>perform a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>risk analysis the actions taken to mitigate those risks would be
>>>>>suitably different.
>>>>>neil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>*From:* ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>*David Adner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>*Sent:* 29 November 2005 23:26
>>>>>*To:* ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>*Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>>>
>>>>>I would only agree if you told me your DC's regularly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>fail to come
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>back after a reboot. And if you did tell me that I'd have to say
>>>>>you're doing something wrong.
>>>>>I suppose I don't consider rebooting a DC to be quite the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>dangerous
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>act as others do. To what degree is this taken? If it holds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>a standard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Primary zone do you transfer that role, too? If it's the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>PDCE of the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>forest root domain and you transfer the role, do you also
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>reconfigure
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the new PDCE to manually synchronize time from an authoritative
>>>>>source? I mean, if we're going to work under the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>assumption that a
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>reboot is a regularly catastrophic causing event then
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>it's probably
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>time to switch OS's.
>>>>>Is it possible something unexpectedly horrible can happen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>as part of a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>reboot? Sure. But it better be the exception. And with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>regards to FSMO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>roles, which, barring some specific technical requirement they be
>>>>>readily available, the temporary outage of them is typically a
>>>>>transparent event and shouldn't require added
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>administrative overhead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>in transferring them back and forth. Accepting that a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>catastrophic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>event is an exception, then you follow your documented and tested
>>>>>activities to recover from that exception; ie: you seize
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>the roles,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>restore from backup, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *From:* ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Behalf Of *Rich
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Milburn
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:26 PM
>>>>> *To:* ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah but having "seize the FSMOs instead of moving
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>them" as your
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> fallback plan is like making sure you have a current backup in
>>>>> case "yanking the power cord instead of Start > Shutdown >
>>>>> Restart" causes file system corruption J
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>//------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>----------
>>>>-///
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ///Rich Milburn///
>>>>> ///MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory Services///
>>>>> Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform Development
>>>>> Applebee's International, Inc.//
>>>>> //4551 W. 107th St//
>>>>> //Overland Park//, KS 66207//
>>>>> //913-967-2819//
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>//------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>----------
>>>>//
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ///"I love the smell of red herrings in the morning" -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>anonymous//
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of
>>>>> *ChuckGaff@xxxxxxx
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:56 AM
>>>>> *To:* ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer
>>>>>
>>>>> If something went wrong you could still seize the FSMO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>roles as an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> option rather than doing a transfer. Of course the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>procedures for
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> all of these for the 5 FSMOs should be documented just in case
>>>>> needed..
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> /
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> *-------APPLEBEE'S INTERNATIONAL, INC. CONFIDENTIALITY
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>NOTICE-------*
>>>>
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