| Author | Messages | |
gturner
Posts:1
 | | 09/23/2005 3:06 AM |
| Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need to go over
an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS Outlook newsgroup
site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic but need to
get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by Outlook XP to locate a GC
server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local GC discovery
(by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of this configuration can
anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook configured as such uses to locate a
GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the 'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the discovery process
is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
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List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/ | | | |
| Alm@xxxx.yyy
| | 09/23/2005 3:34 AM |
| No, I wouldn't expect the client to favor the RR weighting. It's going
to find a GC by talking to the Exchange server which is going to hand
out which GC to use. That's been the problem all along IMHO.
Additionally, there is VERY little value in letting Outlook use a
different GC than one local to the Exchange servers except for the GAL
download when in offline mode. Otherwise, very little savings in my
experience.
Outlook behavior changes frequently and varies depending on the exact
revision of Outlook that you're using. This was painfully evident in
OL98 through OL2K versions.
Utilization of the closest GC key is notoriously hard to use effectively
especially for roaming users but it is used to predispose Outlook to the
answer that it would otherwise get from Exchange servers.
Does that help? The only two ways to control the GC site that Outlook
uses is to either use that key else have Exchange hand out the GC you
want it to. There were some improvements in that process in OL2K3 and
Exchange 2K3 products, but you're not using those versions right?
Al
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need
to go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help
on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS
Outlook newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in
order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic
but need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by
Outlook XP to locate a GC server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local
GC discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of
this configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook
configured as such uses to locate a GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the
discovery process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not
seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx
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http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
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| listmail
Posts:497
| | 09/23/2005 4:12 AM |
| If outlook is configured to use nearest GC I believe it simply falls back to
whatever the OS says to use.
Check to see if nltest /dsgetdc:forestrootdomain /gc matches up with the
Exchange server you use for AB/NSPI ops from outlook.
Obviously you could start a network sniffer and see what happens when
outlook fires up as well.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need to
go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS Outlook
newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic but
need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by Outlook
XP to locate a GC server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local GC
discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of this
configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook configured
as such uses to locate a GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the discovery
process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx
List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
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| gturner
Posts:1
| | 09/23/2005 6:25 AM |
| Al, thanks for the reply post.
i think i recall you being in on the correspondence last time round.
point taken about 'VERY little value in letting Outlook use a different GC .." - i
have only thought that this is a little (can't quantify unfortunately) wasteful on
WAN bandwidth given we have a local copy of the directory so why not use it ??
i still if only perhaps from a technical purity view would like to understand how
the 'closestGc' actually works ?? - it seems one of the less well documented configs
GT
> No, I wouldn't expect the client to favor the RR weighting. It's going
> to find a GC by talking to the Exchange server which is going to hand
> out which GC to use. That's been the problem all along IMHO.
> Additionally, there is VERY little value in letting Outlook use a
> different GC than one local to the Exchange servers except for the GAL
> download when in offline mode. Otherwise, very little savings in my
> experience.
>
> Outlook behavior changes frequently and varies depending on the exact
> revision of Outlook that you're using. This was painfully evident in
> OL98 through OL2K versions.
>
> Utilization of the closest GC key is notoriously hard to use effectively
> especially for roaming users but it is used to predispose Outlook to the
> answer that it would otherwise get from Exchange servers.
>
> Does that help? The only two ways to control the GC site that Outlook
> uses is to either use that key else have Exchange hand out the GC you
> want it to. There were some improvements in that process in OL2K3 and
> Exchange 2K3 products, but you're not using those versions right?
>
> Al
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
> To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
>
> Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need
> to go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help
> on.
>
> this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS
> Outlook newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in
> order.
>
> i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic
> but need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by
> Outlook XP to locate a GC server.
>
> there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local
> GC discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of
> this configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook
> configured as such uses to locate a GC.
>
> as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
> 'referral'
> that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
>
> as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
> INTERESTED IN -
>
> we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the
> discovery process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not
> seem to prevail
>
> as always assistances gladly received.
>
> GT
>
>
>
>
>
> List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
> List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx
> List archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
> List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
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> List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/
>
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| MThommes
Posts:79
| | 09/23/2005 10:33 AM |
| All this GC talk makes me want to ask the following question - what is the relationship between a non-zero priority value put on a GC SRV record and the output from a "getGClist" call? I have a new DC that I need to make a GC to avoid an NTDS 1419 error on one my other DCs (see below) but I don't want any clients to query it. Will the non-zero Priority value be enough?
This DC is both a Global Catalog and the Infrastructure Update master. These two roles are incompatible. If another machine exists in the domain, it should be made the Infrastructure Update master. The machine CN=NTDS Settings,CN=Server4,CN=Servers,CN=West,CN=Sites,CN=Configuration,DC=PRODOM,DC=com is a good candidate for this role. If all domain controllers in this domain are Global Catalogs, then there are no Infrastructure Update tasks to complete, and this message may be ignored.
TIA,
Mike Thommes
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of joe
Sent: Fri 9/23/2005 11:07 AM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
If outlook is configured to use nearest GC I believe it simply falls back to
whatever the OS says to use.
Check to see if nltest /dsgetdc:forestrootdomain /gc matches up with the
Exchange server you use for AB/NSPI ops from outlook.
Obviously you could start a network sniffer and see what happens when
outlook fires up as well.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need to
go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS Outlook
newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic but
need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by Outlook
XP to locate a GC server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local GC
discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of this
configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook configured
as such uses to locate a GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the discovery
process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
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| ZJORZ
Posts:133
| | 09/24/2005 3:18 AM |
| I believe it works like...
Outlook clients are not site-aware. By default Outlook uses the GC handed out by the DSPROXY/DSACCESS proces of the Exchange server that is hosting the mailbox of the user. It will thus (again by default) not use a closest GC like a Windows 2000/XP/2003 client would.
This behavior can be though and it is described in MS-KBQ319206.
But at least for OL2003 RTM, the complete process goes like this:
1) If "DS Server" registry key set, use that GC
2) If "Closest GC" registry key set, call UseDsGetDcName()
3) If fast network adapter, get DS Referral from home Exchange server
4) If slow network adapter, attempt connect with GC in MAPI profile
5) Connect to DSProxy from home Exchange server
Cheers
Jorge
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of joe
Sent: Fri 9/23/2005 6:07 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
If outlook is configured to use nearest GC I believe it simply falls back to
whatever the OS says to use.
Check to see if nltest /dsgetdc:forestrootdomain /gc matches up with the
Exchange server you use for AB/NSPI ops from outlook.
Obviously you could start a network sniffer and see what happens when
outlook fires up as well.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need to
go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS Outlook
newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic but
need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by Outlook
XP to locate a GC server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local GC
discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of this
configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook configured
as such uses to locate a GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the discovery
process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx
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This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.
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| ZJORZ
Posts:133
| | 09/24/2005 4:50 AM |
| · DNS priority and weight Each domain controller and global catalog server has a Service (SRV) resource record, which contains both a priority value and a weight value. The administrator preassigns these values to reflect how servers should be load balanced. DSAccess uses only the weight value to determine which server the client should prefer; therefore, administrators can use the priority value to control Active Directory load generated by logons, and the weight value to control Active Directory load generated by Exchange. A higher weight results in a higher probability that DSAccess will choose a server. DSAccess treats a weight of 0 the same it treats a weight of 1. If DSAccess cannot read the weight, it uses a default weight of 100.
While Windows clients use DNS to locate DCs/GCs, Exchange uses the AD topology to locate them by using LDAP queries. So no matter what priority you define or even if you configure the DC/GC to not register domain-wide/site-wide SRV RRs it will find and use the DC/GC because it queries AD for a list. I have seen this happen because I remember a migration assignment I did, where I configured a DC/GC for migration purposes only and configured it NOT to register domain-wide/site-wide SRV RRs (only the replication record was registered). One day I was talking with a collegue about how you can see in OL2003 which GC you are using (for those interested: hold CTRL key down and right click on the outlook icon in the system tray and select connection status - if you start outlook and check the connectin status immediately you will see it trying to connect). So I showed him that and suddendly I saw the "migration DC/GC" - which did not register the domain-wide/site-wide SRV RRs (and I checked!) - was being used. Looking what is said above Exchange was not able to read the weight of the migration DC/GC because the SRV RRs were not registered. So it thought... "who cares lets use it though and I will assign it a weight value of 100"
I may be missing something but I don't understand why exchange does not use DNS to locate DC/GCs (at least for DSPROXY/DSACCESS when clients need one) like WIndows clients do for logon/authentication purposes.
When I read the documentation I interpret it as I wrote it here. So if I have interpret it wrong please tell me so.
The only way I can see which DCs/GCs Exchange uses is to hardcode them or to create an Exchange Site with DCs/GCs that are only used by Exchange. With that Exchange creates an in-site list, but it also creates an out-site list to be used when the DCs/GCs on the in-site list are not available for some reason.
Concerning your question/remark...
>> I have a new DC that I need to make a GC to avoid an NTDS 1419 error on one my other DCs (see below) but I don't want any clients to query it.
You don't want clients to query what GC? The new GC or the GC with the IM (I assume the latter one).
Concerning the IM FSMO role and the GC role look at it from the domain perspective. If all DCs in a domain are GC then it does not matter the IM of that domain is on a GC. You don't have any other choice though. If you at least have one DC in a domain then do not put the IM of that same domain on a GC. For more info on this read: MS-KBQ248047_Phantoms, Tombstones and the Infrastructure Master
Cheers,
Jorge
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Thommes, Michael M.
Sent: Sat 9/24/2005 12:32 AM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
All this GC talk makes me want to ask the following question - what is the relationship between a non-zero priority value put on a GC SRV record and the output from a "getGClist" call? I have a new DC that I need to make a GC to avoid an NTDS 1419 error on one my other DCs (see below) but I don't want any clients to query it. Will the non-zero Priority value be enough?
This DC is both a Global Catalog and the Infrastructure Update master. These two roles are incompatible. If another machine exists in the domain, it should be made the Infrastructure Update master. The machine CN=NTDS Settings,CN=Server4,CN=Servers,CN=West,CN=Sites,CN=Configuration,DC=PRODOM,DC=com is a good candidate for this role. If all domain controllers in this domain are Global Catalogs, then there are no Infrastructure Update tasks to complete, and this message may be ignored.
TIA,
Mike Thommes
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of joe
Sent: Fri 9/23/2005 11:07 AM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
If outlook is configured to use nearest GC I believe it simply falls back to
whatever the OS says to use.
Check to see if nltest /dsgetdc:forestrootdomain /gc matches up with the
Exchange server you use for AB/NSPI ops from outlook.
Obviously you could start a network sniffer and see what happens when
outlook fires up as well.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need to
go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS Outlook
newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic but
need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by Outlook
XP to locate a GC server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local GC
discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of this
configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook configured
as such uses to locate a GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the discovery
process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
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This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.
> | | | |
| listmail
Posts:497
| | 09/26/2005 8:54 AM |
| > 2) If "Closest GC" registry key set, call UseDsGetDcName()
Yep, fall back to whatever the OS says...
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Almeida Pinto,
Jorge de
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 11:14 AM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
I believe it works like...
Outlook clients are not site-aware. By default Outlook uses the GC handed
out by the DSPROXY/DSACCESS proces of the Exchange server that is hosting
the mailbox of the user. It will thus (again by default) not use a closest
GC like a Windows 2000/XP/2003 client would.
This behavior can be though and it is described in MS-KBQ319206.
But at least for OL2003 RTM, the complete process goes like this:
1) If "DS Server" registry key set, use that GC
2) If "Closest GC" registry key set, call UseDsGetDcName()
3) If fast network adapter, get DS Referral from home Exchange server
4) If slow network adapter, attempt connect with GC in MAPI profile
5) Connect to DSProxy from home Exchange server Cheers Jorge
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of joe
Sent: Fri 9/23/2005 6:07 PM
To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
If outlook is configured to use nearest GC I believe it simply falls back to
whatever the OS says to use.
Check to see if nltest /dsgetdc:forestrootdomain /gc matches up with the
Exchange server you use for AB/NSPI ops from outlook.
Obviously you could start a network sniffer and see what happens when
outlook fires up as well.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Graham Turner
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM
To: activedir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ActiveDir] global catalog discovery / Outlook XP
Dear all, i have been away from the list for absolutely ages but i need to
go over an issue of GC discovery with Outlook XP that need some help on.
this may be regarded as OT to this list, but have posted on an MS Outlook
newsgroup site with nothing back so i hope this post to be in order.
i recall what ended up as a trilogy many months ago on a similar topic but
need to get fairly specific information on the mechanisms used by Outlook
XP to locate a GC server.
there was much discussion on the configuration of Outlook to use local GC
discovery (by way of the CLOSESTGC reg value) but on the basis of this
configuration can anyone elaborate on the mechanism that Outlook configured
as such uses to locate a GC.
as i understand the MS documentation, this registry value disables the
'referral'
that the client gets (presumably from DSACCESS / DSPROXY).
as such it must then have its own mechanism - THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
INTERESTED IN -
we have attempted loading the SRV RR's (ldapsrvpriority) so the discovery
process is loaded towards a particular GC, but this does not seem to prevail
as always assistances gladly received.
GT
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This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended
recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential
information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied,
disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an
intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any
attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
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