| Author | Messages | |
Johnchristie11
Posts:42
 | | 08/06/2008 4:18 PM |
| My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| darren
Posts:325
| | 08/06/2008 4:33 PM |
| Wow, that is a new one on me. I would have to say false on both counts, but
I suppose only someone with history at MS can truly confirm it. I've
personally not heard either of those and have worked with both for a long
time. Wait, is it April 1st???
Darren
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 1:17 PM
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| AFidel
Posts:87
| | 08/06/2008 4:51 PM |
| I'm calling BS on this based on the fact that AD is based on the JET Blue
engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Storage_Engine) whereas
NDS was based on Recman which was tied tightly to the Novell operating
system. While Novell did eventually decouple the code to use the FLAIM DB
engine it wasn't until much later. The only real similarity between NDS
and AD is that they are both x.500 LDAP compatible directories, the
replication topologies are very different along with the previously noted
differences in database stores.
Andrew
"John Christie" <johnchristie11@googlemail.com>
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
08/06/2008 04:18 PM
Please respond to
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
activedir <ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
cc
Subject
[ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as
Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any
knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| gabriel/tfi
Posts:376
| | 08/06/2008 8:24 PM |
| What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| tkern
Posts:8
| | 08/06/2008 8:32 PM |
| AD history=exchange 5.5
On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Gabriele Scolaro <gabro@gabro.net> wrote:
> What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
> architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
> Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
> which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
> Directory.
>
> So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
> also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
> played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
>
> But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
>
>
>
> Gabriele
>
>
>
> From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
> [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
> Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
> To: activedir
>
> Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
>
>
>
>
>
> My colleague has made the following statements:
>
>
>
> * Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
>
> * Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
> Services and then developed it.
>
>
>
> As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
> NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
> can confirm or deny his claims?
>
>
>
>
>
>
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx
List archive: http://www.activedir.org/ma/default.aspx
| | | |
| ajax
Posts:19
| | 08/06/2008 8:36 PM |
| I know one of the Lead Development Managers of the AD well since he lives locally. I'll ask him about more details as there is some more background there.
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gabriele Scolaro
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| michael1
Posts:374
| | 08/06/2008 8:38 PM |
| All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a minor little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| efleis
Posts:20
| | 08/07/2008 8:39 AM |
| Replying to the thread again as there is probably someone that can help tell the tale of how AD started...he can tell it from the perspective of someone who was there....
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:36 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which started with a "minor" little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| listmail
Posts:752
| | 08/07/2008 9:09 AM |
| Oh that gave me a pretty good chuckle.
eDirectory if I recall was released in November 99 which was about the time
Windows 2000 went RTM (I recall that being Dec 99 and RC3 was Nov 99, Beta
started sometime in 1997).
Having spent hundreds of hours looking around the Windows Source code,
specifically the AD Source I can say I have yet to have seen a single Novell
reference for anything in any of the core areas of the DS other than maybe a
mention in a comment to not futz with something because it could impact
Netware.
The closest that can claim parentage over AD would be Exchange and I think
even that is a bit of a stretch as from what I have heard, things were
substantially changed to make it work properly as a solid generic LDAP
directory service.
joe
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17 PM
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| neilruston
Posts:164
| | 08/07/2008 9:23 AM |
| eDir is the latest version of what was named NDS. NDS hit the streets in
1993, when Netware 4 was released.
Before that, Novell installed a SAM equivalent on each Netware server
(called a Bindery), all of which were isolated from each other.
Novell may have re-badged their product when w2k/AD was shipped, but in
truth, they had a fully fledged directory product years previous anyway.
I think the last place you'll find MS 'acquiring' code, is from Novell
:-) [go read the bashing both vendors performed back in 99/00 and you'll
realise there was no love lost!]
neil
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of joe
Sent: 07 August 2008 06:35
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Oh that gave me a pretty good chuckle.
eDirectory if I recall was released in November 99 which was about the
time Windows 2000 went RTM (I recall that being Dec 99 and RC3 was Nov
99, Beta started sometime in 1997).
Having spent hundreds of hours looking around the Windows Source code,
specifically the AD Source I can say I have yet to have seen a single
Novell reference for anything in any of the core areas of the DS other
than maybe a mention in a comment to not futz with something because it
could impact Netware.
The closest that can claim parentage over AD would be Exchange and I
think even that is a bit of a stretch as from what I have heard, things
were substantially changed to make it work properly as a solid generic
LDAP directory service.
joe
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17 PM
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active
Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as
Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any
knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
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| | | |
| tonyszko
Posts:121
| | 08/07/2008 9:56 AM |
| joe wrote:
> Oh that gave me a pretty good chuckle.
>
> eDirectory if I recall was released in November 99 which was about the
> time Windows 2000 went RTM (I recall that being Dec 99 and RC3 was Nov
> 99, Beta started sometime in 1997).
>
> Having spent hundreds of hours looking around the Windows Source code,
> specifically the AD Source I can say I have yet to have seen a single
> Novell reference for anything in any of the core areas of the DS other
> than maybe a mention in a comment to not futz with something because it
> could impact Netware.
>
> The closest that can claim parentage over AD would be Exchange and I
> think even that is a bit of a stretch as from what I have heard, things
> were substantially changed to make it work properly as a solid generic
> LDAP directory service.
Beside exchange I wonder if anything from Site Server or parts of MCIS
has also influenced AD  . At the end site server delivered LDAP directory.
--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)
List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx
List archive: http://www.activedir.org/ma/default.aspx
| | | |
| DonH
Posts:55
| | 08/07/2008 10:47 AM |
| Thanks for tipping me off to this thread, Eric. I'll see if I can clear up
the pre-history.
The oldest traceable part of AD started life at 3Com in 1988 or 1989. This
was an (incomplete!) X.500-ish directory with custom communication
protocols, built on top of a C-Tree database, running under 16-bit OS/2. By
1990 3Com had abandoned its network software efforts and the directory code
moved to Microsoft as part of some complicated deal. The LanMan group
planned to include the directory service in LanMan 3.0 and immediately
started porting it to the JET Blue ISAM and building an RPC front end
compliant with the X/Open XDS API.
At this point (in early 1991) Jim Allchin, who had recently taken over the
LanMan group, cancelled LanMan 3.0 and scrapped its directory service
project. In its place he created the Cairo project, which included a
completely non-X.500 like directory service that lived as part of OFS, the
Cairo file system.
The email group at Microsoft picked up two pieces out of the wreckage of
LanMan 3.0: the DS and an X.400 MTA. We (this is when I became dev lead of
the DS) ported the DS to Windows NT, finished the JET and XDS work, and
added a MAPI RPC interface, a query engine, the KCC, a modifiable schema,
the link table, and much, much more. This version of the DSA (plus the MTA
and a custom message store) shipped in Exchange 4.0 in 1996. By this point
there's very little of the original code left, although some elderly data
structures live on, at least in name.
Around late 1995 Cairo, and its attendant directory service, were cancelled.
This left the OS team with an urgent need for a DS (for Windows 2000) but no
plans to build one. To fill the hole, the week after Exchange 4.0 shipped
two of us from the Exchange DS dev team made a copy of the DS sources and
moved to the Windows group, where we got re-christened Active Directory, and
the rest is history.
In summary:
* AD has no relation to Novell NDS/eDirectory. Novell was a
competitor (the competitor), not a licensee/licensor.
* AD has no relation to Banyan StreetTalk. Although both Jim Allchin
and one member of the AD dev team were former Banyan employees, there was no
license or co-work between Microsoft and Banyan.
* AD has no relation to Cairo, except the relation that mammals have
to dinosaurs.
* AD did not inherit code or functionality from Site Server or MCIS.
It did inherit their customers.
* AD is a direct descendant of the DSA in Exchange 4.0 (Note that
LDAP support got added separately to the two branches of the directory in
Exchange 5.something and Windows 2000. Anything that important is clearly
worth doing twice.)
Don
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Eric Fleischman
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Replying to the thread again as there is probably someone that can help tell
the tale of how AD started
he can tell it from the perspective of someone
who was there
.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:36 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a minor little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| AFidel
Posts:87
| | 08/07/2008 10:57 AM |
| Was there code sharing between the Exchange 5.x and AD LDAP layers, or
were the two efforts silo'd?
Thanks,
Andrew
"Don Hacherl" <don@hacherl.org>
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
08/07/2008 10:47 AM
Please respond to
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
<ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
cc
Subject
RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Thanks for tipping me off to this thread, Eric. I'll see if I can clear
up the pre-history.
The oldest traceable part of AD started life at 3Com in 1988 or 1989. This
was an (incomplete!) X.500-ish directory with custom communication
protocols, built on top of a C-Tree database, running under 16-bit OS/2.
By 1990 3Com had abandoned its network software efforts and the directory
code moved to Microsoft as part of some complicated deal. The LanMan
group planned to include the directory service in LanMan 3.0 and
immediately started porting it to the JET Blue ISAM and building an RPC
front end compliant with the X/Open XDS API.
At this point (in early 1991) Jim Allchin, who had recently taken over the
LanMan group, cancelled LanMan 3.0 and scrapped its directory service
project. In its place he created the Cairo project, which included a
completely non-X.500 like directory service that lived as part of OFS, the
Cairo file system.
The email group at Microsoft picked up two pieces out of the wreckage of
LanMan 3.0: the DS and an X.400 MTA. We (this is when I became dev lead
of the DS) ported the DS to Windows NT, finished the JET and XDS work, and
added a MAPI RPC interface, a query engine, the KCC, a modifiable schema,
the link table, and much, much more. This version of the DSA (plus the
MTA and a custom message store) shipped in Exchange 4.0 in 1996. By this
point there's very little of the original code left, although some elderly
data structures live on, at least in name.
Around late 1995 Cairo, and its attendant directory service, were
cancelled. This left the OS team with an urgent need for a DS (for
Windows 2000) but no plans to build one. To fill the hole, the week after
Exchange 4.0 shipped two of us from the Exchange DS dev team made a copy
of the DS sources and moved to the Windows group, where we got
re-christened Active Directory, and the rest is history.
In summary:
AD has no relation to Novell NDS/eDirectory. Novell was a competitor (the
competitor), not a licensee/licensor.
AD has no relation to Banyan StreetTalk. Although both Jim Allchin and
one member of the AD dev team were former Banyan employees, there was no
license or co-work between Microsoft and Banyan.
AD has no relation to Cairo, except the relation that mammals have to
dinosaurs.
AD did not inherit code or functionality from Site Server or MCIS. It did
inherit their customers.
AD is a direct descendant of the DSA in Exchange 4.0 (Note that LDAP
support got added separately to the two branches of the directory in
Exchange 5.something and Windows 2000. Anything that important is clearly
worth doing twice.)
Don
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Eric Fleischman
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Replying to the thread again as there is probably someone that can help
tell the tale of how AD started?he can tell it from the perspective of
someone who was there?.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:36 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a ?minor? little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I
was also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as
Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any
knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| listmail
Posts:752
| | 08/07/2008 11:42 AM |
| I would read that as siloed since Don said separately but that is but a
guess.
For anyone who doesn't recognize the name, Don is going to be the best
authority on this topic. Period.
Don: Thanks for taking the time to come out and respond. As always, great
information.
joe
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of AFidel@ddrc.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 10:56 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Was there code sharing between the Exchange 5.x and AD LDAP layers, or were
the two efforts silo'd?
Thanks,
Andrew
"Don Hacherl" <don@hacherl.org>
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
08/07/2008 10:47 AM
Please respond to
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
<ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
cc
Subject
RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Thanks for tipping me off to this thread, Eric. I'll see if I can clear up
the pre-history.
The oldest traceable part of AD started life at 3Com in 1988 or 1989. This
was an (incomplete!) X.500-ish directory with custom communication
protocols, built on top of a C-Tree database, running under 16-bit OS/2. By
1990 3Com had abandoned its network software efforts and the directory code
moved to Microsoft as part of some complicated deal. The LanMan group
planned to include the directory service in LanMan 3.0 and immediately
started porting it to the JET Blue ISAM and building an RPC front end
compliant with the X/Open XDS API.
At this point (in early 1991) Jim Allchin, who had recently taken over the
LanMan group, cancelled LanMan 3.0 and scrapped its directory service
project. In its place he created the Cairo project, which included a
completely non-X.500 like directory service that lived as part of OFS, the
Cairo file system.
The email group at Microsoft picked up two pieces out of the wreckage of
LanMan 3.0: the DS and an X.400 MTA. We (this is when I became dev lead of
the DS) ported the DS to Windows NT, finished the JET and XDS work, and
added a MAPI RPC interface, a query engine, the KCC, a modifiable schema,
the link table, and much, much more. This version of the DSA (plus the MTA
and a custom message store) shipped in Exchange 4.0 in 1996. By this point
there's very little of the original code left, although some elderly data
structures live on, at least in name.
Around late 1995 Cairo, and its attendant directory service, were cancelled.
This left the OS team with an urgent need for a DS (for Windows 2000) but no
plans to build one. To fill the hole, the week after Exchange 4.0 shipped
two of us from the Exchange DS dev team made a copy of the DS sources and
moved to the Windows group, where we got re-christened Active Directory, and
the rest is history.
In summary:
* AD has no relation to Novell NDS/eDirectory. Novell was a
competitor (the competitor), not a licensee/licensor.
* AD has no relation to Banyan StreetTalk. Although both Jim Allchin
and one member of the AD dev team were former Banyan employees, there was no
license or co-work between Microsoft and Banyan.
* AD has no relation to Cairo, except the relation that mammals have
to dinosaurs.
* AD did not inherit code or functionality from Site Server or MCIS.
It did inherit their customers.
* AD is a direct descendant of the DSA in Exchange 4.0 (Note that
LDAP support got added separately to the two branches of the directory in
Exchange 5.something and Windows 2000. Anything that important is clearly
worth doing twice.)
Don
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Eric Fleischman
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Replying to the thread again as there is probably someone that can help tell
the tale of how AD started
he can tell it from the perspective of someone
who was there
.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:36 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a minor little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| michael1
Posts:374
| | 08/07/2008 11:50 AM |
| Great stuff! Thanks.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Don Hacherl
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 10:45 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Thanks for tipping me off to this thread, Eric. I'll see if I can clear up
the pre-history.
The oldest traceable part of AD started life at 3Com in 1988 or 1989. This
was an (incomplete!) X.500-ish directory with custom communication
protocols, built on top of a C-Tree database, running under 16-bit OS/2. By
1990 3Com had abandoned its network software efforts and the directory code
moved to Microsoft as part of some complicated deal. The LanMan group
planned to include the directory service in LanMan 3.0 and immediately
started porting it to the JET Blue ISAM and building an RPC front end
compliant with the X/Open XDS API.
At this point (in early 1991) Jim Allchin, who had recently taken over the
LanMan group, cancelled LanMan 3.0 and scrapped its directory service
project. In its place he created the Cairo project, which included a
completely non-X.500 like directory service that lived as part of OFS, the
Cairo file system.
The email group at Microsoft picked up two pieces out of the wreckage of
LanMan 3.0: the DS and an X.400 MTA. We (this is when I became dev lead of
the DS) ported the DS to Windows NT, finished the JET and XDS work, and
added a MAPI RPC interface, a query engine, the KCC, a modifiable schema,
the link table, and much, much more. This version of the DSA (plus the MTA
and a custom message store) shipped in Exchange 4.0 in 1996. By this point
there's very little of the original code left, although some elderly data
structures live on, at least in name.
Around late 1995 Cairo, and its attendant directory service, were cancelled.
This left the OS team with an urgent need for a DS (for Windows 2000) but no
plans to build one. To fill the hole, the week after Exchange 4.0 shipped
two of us from the Exchange DS dev team made a copy of the DS sources and
moved to the Windows group, where we got re-christened Active Directory, and
the rest is history.
In summary:
* AD has no relation to Novell NDS/eDirectory. Novell was a
competitor (the competitor), not a licensee/licensor.
* AD has no relation to Banyan StreetTalk. Although both Jim Allchin
and one member of the AD dev team were former Banyan employees, there was no
license or co-work between Microsoft and Banyan.
* AD has no relation to Cairo, except the relation that mammals have
to dinosaurs.
* AD did not inherit code or functionality from Site Server or MCIS.
It did inherit their customers.
* AD is a direct descendant of the DSA in Exchange 4.0 (Note that
LDAP support got added separately to the two branches of the directory in
Exchange 5.something and Windows 2000. Anything that important is clearly
worth doing twice.)
Don
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Eric Fleischman
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Replying to the thread again as there is probably someone that can help tell
the tale of how AD started
he can tell it from the perspective of someone
who was there
.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:36 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a minor little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| listmail
Posts:752
| | 08/07/2008 11:56 AM |
| Ah true. I seemingly forgot about that one. Darn you Neil for reminding me.
NDS didn't get LDAP V3 until just before eDir though did they? Prior it was
proprietary access no?
I think I still have a Netware Admin book somewhere with a free copy of
Netware 5.x in it, my mom got it for me, I never opened it. I was already
working on NT and liked it building near "bullet proof" servers for the
financial division of a large widget company. The servers stayed up exactly
one year every year. They went down once each year because of a data center
power and fire suppression system test requirement they had; if we had only
moved to the corporate datacenter I could have kept them up longer than a
year though we did do updates on them at that same time as well. Really
irked me because that was at a time, as now, that people said Windows
couldn't stay up and running very long. It did, you just had to be careful
about drivers, etc that you put on it. Those systems were tracking billions
of US dollars of money being moved around the world and had to be up and
functioning properly at all times. Three days of lost data could have
bankrupt the entire company.
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of
neil.ruston@barclayswealth.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:20 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
eDir is the latest version of what was named NDS. NDS hit the streets in
1993, when Netware 4 was released.
Before that, Novell installed a SAM equivalent on each Netware server
(called a Bindery), all of which were isolated from each other.
Novell may have re-badged their product when w2k/AD was shipped, but in
truth, they had a fully fledged directory product years previous anyway.
I think the last place you'll find MS 'acquiring' code, is from Novell :-)
[go read the bashing both vendors performed back in 99/00 and you'll realise
there was no love lost!]
neil
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of joe
Sent: 07 August 2008 06:35
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Oh that gave me a pretty good chuckle.
eDirectory if I recall was released in November 99 which was about the time
Windows 2000 went RTM (I recall that being Dec 99 and RC3 was Nov 99, Beta
started sometime in 1997).
Having spent hundreds of hours looking around the Windows Source code,
specifically the AD Source I can say I have yet to have seen a single Novell
reference for anything in any of the core areas of the DS other than maybe a
mention in a comment to not futz with something because it could impact
Netware.
The closest that can claim parentage over AD would be Exchange and I think
even that is a bit of a stretch as from what I have heard, things were
substantially changed to make it work properly as a solid generic LDAP
directory service.
joe
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17 PM
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
_____
Barclays Wealth is the wealth management division of Barclays Bank PLC. This
email may relate to or be sent from other members of the Barclays Group.
The availability of products and services may be limited by the applicable
laws and regulations in certain jurisdictions. The Barclays Group does not
normally accept or offer business instructions via internet email. Any
action that you might take upon this message might be at your own risk.
This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the
addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under
applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this email in
error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and
do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this email or its
attachments.
Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or without viruses.
The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from
unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by
any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this
email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business
reasons.
Any opinion or other information in this email or its attachments that does
not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the sender
and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group.
Barclays Bank PLC. Registered in England and Wales (registered no. 1026167).
Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP, United Kingdom.
Barclays Bank PLC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services
Authority.
| | | |
| neilruston
Posts:164
| | 08/07/2008 12:04 PM |
|
Ah true. I seemingly forgot about that one. Darn you Neil for reminding
me.
*** You can always rely upon me, joe :-)
NDS didn't get LDAP V3 until just before eDir though did they? Prior it
was proprietary access no?
*** I believe so - I stopped working with Netware at version 3!
I think I still have a Netware Admin book somewhere with a free copy of
Netware 5.x in it, my mom got it for me, I never opened it. I was
already working on NT and liked it building near "bullet proof" servers
for the financial division of a large widget company. The servers stayed
up exactly one year every year. They went down once each year because of
a data center power and fire suppression system test requirement they
had; if we had only moved to the corporate datacenter I could have kept
them up longer than a year though we did do updates on them at that same
time as well. Really irked me because that was at a time, as now, that
people said Windows couldn't stay up and running very long. It did, you
just had to be careful about drivers, etc that you put on it. Those
systems were tracking billions of US dollars of money being moved around
the world and had to be up and functioning properly at all times. Three
days of lost data could have bankrupt the entire company.
*** I had Netware 2 and 3 servers with uptime of several years in the
early nineties. No doubt, the mainframe guys would say the same. I'd
install only what I wanted / needed and nothing else (and yes, no UI!).
Very stable and supportable.
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of
neil.ruston@barclayswealth.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:20 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
eDir is the latest version of what was named NDS. NDS hit the streets in
1993, when Netware 4 was released.
Before that, Novell installed a SAM equivalent on each Netware server
(called a Bindery), all of which were isolated from each other.
Novell may have re-badged their product when w2k/AD was shipped, but in
truth, they had a fully fledged directory product years previous anyway.
I think the last place you'll find MS 'acquiring' code, is from Novell
:-) [go read the bashing both vendors performed back in 99/00 and you'll
realise there was no love lost!]
neil
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of joe
Sent: 07 August 2008 06:35
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Oh that gave me a pretty good chuckle.
eDirectory if I recall was released in November 99 which was about the
time Windows 2000 went RTM (I recall that being Dec 99 and RC3 was Nov
99, Beta started sometime in 1997).
Having spent hundreds of hours looking around the Windows Source code,
specifically the AD Source I can say I have yet to have seen a single
Novell reference for anything in any of the core areas of the DS other
than maybe a mention in a comment to not futz with something because it
could impact Netware.
The closest that can claim parentage over AD would be Exchange and I
think even that is a bit of a stretch as from what I have heard, things
were substantially changed to make it work properly as a solid generic
LDAP directory service.
joe
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17 PM
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active
Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as
Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any
knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
________________________________
Barclays Wealth is the wealth management division of Barclays Bank PLC.
This email may relate to or be sent from other members of the Barclays
Group.
The availability of products and services may be limited by the
applicable laws and regulations in certain jurisdictions. The Barclays
Group does not normally accept or offer business instructions via
internet email. Any action that you might take upon this message might
be at your own risk.
This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for
the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under
applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this
email in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from
your system and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of
this email or its attachments.
Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or without
viruses. The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss
arising from unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet
communications by any third party, or from the transmission of any
viruses. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group
for operational or business reasons.
Any opinion or other information in this email or its attachments that
does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the
sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group.
Barclays Bank PLC. Registered in England and Wales (registered no.
1026167).
Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP, United Kingdom.
Barclays Bank PLC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services
Authority.
Barclays Wealth is the wealth management division of Barclays Bank PLC. This email may relate to or be sent from other members of the Barclays Group.
The availability of products and services may be limited by the applicable laws and regulations in certain jurisdictions. The Barclays Group does not normally accept or offer business instructions via internet email. Any action that you might take upon this message might be at your own risk.
This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this email or its attachments.
Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or without viruses. The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons.
Any opinion or other information in this email or its attachments that does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group.
Barclays Bank PLC. Registered in England and Wales (registered no. 1026167).
Registered Office: 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP, United Kingdom.
Barclays Bank PLC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.
| | | |
| DonH
Posts:55
| | 08/07/2008 12:46 PM |
| The two LDAP efforts were mostly separate. Exchange went first and AD
followed. As I recall we didn't borrow any code, but we did borrow one of
the developers for a month or two. That let us benefit from their
experience without code porting difficulties. (The addition of
per-attribute access controls in AD made lots of AD code diverge from the
Exchange DS very rapidly.)
Don
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of AFidel@ddrc.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:56 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Was there code sharing between the Exchange 5.x and AD LDAP layers, or were
the two efforts silo'd?
Thanks,
Andrew
"Don Hacherl" <don@hacherl.org>
Sent by: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
08/07/2008 10:47 AM
Please respond to
ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
To
<ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
cc
Subject
RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Thanks for tipping me off to this thread, Eric. I'll see if I can clear up
the pre-history.
The oldest traceable part of AD started life at 3Com in 1988 or 1989. This
was an (incomplete!) X.500-ish directory with custom communication
protocols, built on top of a C-Tree database, running under 16-bit OS/2. By
1990 3Com had abandoned its network software efforts and the directory code
moved to Microsoft as part of some complicated deal. The LanMan group
planned to include the directory service in LanMan 3.0 and immediately
started porting it to the JET Blue ISAM and building an RPC front end
compliant with the X/Open XDS API.
At this point (in early 1991) Jim Allchin, who had recently taken over the
LanMan group, cancelled LanMan 3.0 and scrapped its directory service
project. In its place he created the Cairo project, which included a
completely non-X.500 like directory service that lived as part of OFS, the
Cairo file system.
The email group at Microsoft picked up two pieces out of the wreckage of
LanMan 3.0: the DS and an X.400 MTA. We (this is when I became dev lead of
the DS) ported the DS to Windows NT, finished the JET and XDS work, and
added a MAPI RPC interface, a query engine, the KCC, a modifiable schema,
the link table, and much, much more. This version of the DSA (plus the MTA
and a custom message store) shipped in Exchange 4.0 in 1996. By this point
there's very little of the original code left, although some elderly data
structures live on, at least in name.
Around late 1995 Cairo, and its attendant directory service, were cancelled.
This left the OS team with an urgent need for a DS (for Windows 2000) but no
plans to build one. To fill the hole, the week after Exchange 4.0 shipped
two of us from the Exchange DS dev team made a copy of the DS sources and
moved to the Windows group, where we got re-christened Active Directory, and
the rest is history.
In summary:
* AD has no relation to Novell NDS/eDirectory. Novell was a
competitor (the competitor), not a licensee/licensor.
* AD has no relation to Banyan StreetTalk. Although both Jim Allchin
and one member of the AD dev team were former Banyan employees, there was no
license or co-work between Microsoft and Banyan.
* AD has no relation to Cairo, except the relation that mammals have
to dinosaurs.
* AD did not inherit code or functionality from Site Server or MCIS.
It did inherit their customers.
* AD is a direct descendant of the DSA in Exchange 4.0 (Note that
LDAP support got added separately to the two branches of the directory in
Exchange 5.something and Windows 2000. Anything that important is clearly
worth doing twice.)
Don
_____
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Eric Fleischman
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:24 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Replying to the thread again as there is probably someone that can help tell
the tale of how AD started
he can tell it from the perspective of someone
who was there
.
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:36 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a minor little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
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| Tony
Posts:117
| | 08/07/2008 1:35 PM |
| Yeah, not the full story perhaps, but a lot of the history is here:
http://windowsitpro.com/Common/adforceimages/Decade_of_exchange.pdf
Tony
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith
Sent: Thursday, 7 August 2008 12:36 p.m.
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
All very interesting interpretations of an LDAP directory service which
started with a minor little application known as Exchange Server.
Regards,
Michael B. Smith
MCITP:SA,EMA/MCSE/Exchange MVP
http://TheEssentialExchange.com
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Gabriele Scolaro
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:21 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
What I heard about AD History is that Jim Allchin who was formerly an
architect of the Banyan Vines OS and StreetTalk Directory Service joined
Microsoft around 1990 and played a fundamental role in the Cairo project
which developed, among many other things, the X500 foundation for Active
Directory.
So I may assume AD might come - in a certain way from - StreetTalk as I was
also said that Microsoft closely partnered with Banyan whose engineers
played a fundamental role in building some AD parts.
But this is the first time I heard AD comes from NDS!!!
Gabriele
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: mercoledì 6 agosto 2008 22.17
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as Novell
NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any knowledge which
can confirm or deny his claims?
| | | |
| MThommes
Posts:106
| | 08/07/2008 2:36 PM |
| It's a little fuzzy nowadays but I seem to recall that working in the
Novell command line environment was somewhat like using ntdsutil today!
LOL!
Mike Thommes
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of
neil.ruston@barclayswealth.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 11:02 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Ah true. I seemingly forgot about that one. Darn you Neil for reminding
me.
*** You can always rely upon me, joe :-)
NDS didn't get LDAP V3 until just before eDir though did they? Prior it
was proprietary access no?
*** I believe so - I stopped working with Netware at version 3!
I think I still have a Netware Admin book somewhere with a free copy of
Netware 5.x in it, my mom got it for me, I never opened it. I was
already working on NT and liked it building near "bullet proof" servers
for the financial division of a large widget company. The servers stayed
up exactly one year every year. They went down once each year because of
a data center power and fire suppression system test requirement they
had; if we had only moved to the corporate datacenter I could have kept
them up longer than a year though we did do updates on them at that same
time as well. Really irked me because that was at a time, as now, that
people said Windows couldn't stay up and running very long. It did, you
just had to be careful about drivers, etc that you put on it. Those
systems were tracking billions of US dollars of money being moved around
the world and had to be up and functioning properly at all times. Three
days of lost data could have bankrupt the entire company.
*** I had Netware 2 and 3 servers with uptime of several years in the
early nineties. No doubt, the mainframe guys would say the same. I'd
install only what I wanted / needed and nothing else (and yes, no UI!).
Very stable and supportable.
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of
neil.ruston@barclayswealth.com
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:20 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
eDir is the latest version of what was named NDS. NDS hit the streets in
1993, when Netware 4 was released.
Before that, Novell installed a SAM equivalent on each Netware server
(called a Bindery), all of which were isolated from each other.
Novell may have re-badged their product when w2k/AD was shipped, but in
truth, they had a fully fledged directory product years previous anyway.
I think the last place you'll find MS 'acquiring' code, is from Novell
:-) [go read the bashing both vendors performed back in 99/00 and you'll
realise there was no love lost!]
neil
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of joe
Sent: 07 August 2008 06:35
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
Oh that gave me a pretty good chuckle.
eDirectory if I recall was released in November 99 which was about the
time Windows 2000 went RTM (I recall that being Dec 99 and RC3 was Nov
99, Beta started sometime in 1997).
Having spent hundreds of hours looking around the Windows Source code,
specifically the AD Source I can say I have yet to have seen a single
Novell reference for anything in any of the core areas of the DS other
than maybe a mention in a comment to not futz with something because it
could impact Netware.
The closest that can claim parentage over AD would be Exchange and I
think even that is a bit of a stretch as from what I have heard, things
were substantially changed to make it work properly as a solid generic
LDAP directory service.
joe
--
O'Reilly Active Directory Third Edition -
http://www.joeware.net/win/ad3e.htm
________________________________
From: ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of John Christie
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 4:17 PM
To: activedir
Subject: [ActiveDir] History of AD...
My colleague has made the following statements:
* Novell directory services was previously called Novell Active
Directory
* Microsoft licensed/purchased a cut down version of Novell Directory
Services and then developed it.
As far as I'm aware, Novell eDirectory has only ever been marketed as
Novell NDS. He's not the type to do windups so does anyone have any
knowledge which can confirm or deny his claims?
________________________________
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viruses. Replies to this email may be monitored by the Barclays Group
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