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Posts:455
 | | 12/02/2005 12:19 PM |
| I knew a guy back in about 97 or so who made about 300k a
year doing random Windows consulting (he was an outside consultant for
CompuWare) and he drove an Escort GT. He arrived late, left early, usually
demanded to be let out of the contracts prior to their time frame termination
but with full payout because he already had the final solution. Very bright guy,
extremely pig-headed and a serious pain in the butt.
Other than that, I can say I have known high level Ops
admins making >250k, at least one very well. Keep in mind these are people
that when they do things well can literally save a company millions or more
a year. When they are called in for a problem with 50,60,150 thousand users or
entire manufacturing plants hard down they get things corrected fast. Failure to
do so and the company is losing salary as well as unnamed other things that add
up very very quickly. I know this one admin who worked his normal 12 hour shift,
went home, mowed his 1 acre lawn with a walk behind mower (48 inch deck), sat
down with a lemonaide and was called back into work (35 mile drive one way) to
work all night on combatting the "I love you" virus because it had literally
ground the Fortune 5 company to a near dead halt. His scripted and executable
solutions he whipped together combined with his deep knowledge of the
environment had them back up and running the next morning. When he left at 10AM
the next morning, he was still covered in grass clippings.
You don't often get that work quality out of an Admin
making 40k. If you want to pay your admins 40k, you deserve whatever it is you
get. Especially if you have a list as long as my arm of all of the skills and
deep knowledge that the person is supposed to have combined with a degree or
two. I outright laugh at about 80% of the headhunters that contact me when I see
the list of requirements and then see the salary being offered. Ops can be
extremely stressful and difficult.
From: ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pete
HowardSent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:21 PMTo:
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role
transfer [going further OT...]
You probably already know them! I dont see those kinds of
numbers for fortune 50 salaried IT jobs but as a consultant its not unreasonable
to bill them at $125+ per hour which would put you in the 240
range.Craig Cerino wrote:
I
wanna meat the admin making $240K AND the CTO foolish enough to pay
anAdmin that money :)-----Original Message-----From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Ofneil.ruston@xxxxxxxxxxxxxSent: Thursday, December 01, 2005
10:55 AMTo: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO
role transfer [going further OT...]admins earning over $240k
??!!I guess we need to define the word "admin" coz I'm not paying what
Iconsider to be an admin that kinda money :)neil
-----Original Message-----From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of joeSent: 01 December 2005 14:52To:
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role
transferWow I feel heat directed at me.... :o)A non-scripting
admin can not survive very well if at all in a large orgunless the org is
willing to spend a lot of money for extra admins tocover the overhead of
wading through the GUI. Take my last ops positionas an example. Three
people handling a Fortune 5 AD. Couldn't feasiblydone with the GUI. How
long does it take you to enter 100 new subnets?What if you need to expire
8,000 users a day until you have expired all200,000 users?Is that real
admin work or is it clerk work if you are simply clickingon something in a
GUI? If I were a manager of a business, I would ratherpay a contractor or
other service $10 or $15 an hour to click buttonsfor something like that
than pay $40,$60,$100, $150 an hour to someonewho is supposed to keep
things running.So back to the 100 subnets question. How long in Sites
and Services?Hours?What are the chances of a mistake? High? Now you
write a script to doit, how long? Maybe hours to write it and then seconds
to minutes to runfor ever after? Chances of a mistake? Low for entry, also
severelyreduced for supplied data if script has sanity checks in it? Also
oncein script form it is that much easier to say put on a web site
anddelegate to others to do by entering basic answers to basic questions
ina form.Don't create 100 subnets in small org? What other items
do you do thatare no-brainer work that could be scripted. If you didn't
have thatworkload how much other work could you get done? Rarely are
admins everreally doing hard admin type thinking/troubleshooting work
constantlyexcept for the folks who take on escalations from lower level
admins.Possibly this is different in the SBS world and there is no
repetitivework being done that isn't better served by a script, I don't
have thatexperience, I would expect however that there is quite a bit that
couldbe scripted or else Susan wouldn't have the I would rather see
somethingsafe from MS than a script from someone in the backroom attitude.
A saying I have used here in the past that I always used at work is
thatyou can't be too busy cutting down trees to sharpen your axe. It
appliesboth to training and scripting. If you are too busy to do nothing
butthe work in front of you, you will never see the edge of the forest
asyou get slower and slower at doing what you are doing. At some point
youhave to step back and spend some time to make yourself more informed
ormore efficient. The more time you spend getting more efficient, the
moretime you have to keep yourself informed and get even more efficient.
Finally scripting requires understanding of how things are
working,using the GUI doesn't. Trying to script processes forces a person
tolearn more about the product they are supporting and could very
likelyget them to learn enough that the next time they encounter a
failure,they fully or at least more fully troubleshoot versus changing
things inthe GUI until it works. If you look at an admin making
$35k a year versus one making $60k a yearversus one making $80k a year
versus one making $150k a year versus onemaking over $240k a year you are
probably not looking at a raise insalary because someone knows the GUI
better than the others. If you seesomeone who rose through those salary
ranks in say 5 years, it isn'tbecause they knew the GUI keyboard
shortcuts. Understanding scripting makes you more valuable both
because you canoperate more efficiently and because you "tend" to have a
better graspof how things work because you are forced to learn the details
which arecovered by the GUI. Not only that, you can troubleshoot better
becauseyou have more options to you. I recently ran into an issue where
someoneentered a bad value for a DL expansion server. The value was so bad
theGUI didn't even display it, instead it said the DL had no
expansionserver. The admin I was helping actually told me I was wrong when
I saidit was set and it was in fact set incorrectly because the GUI said
itwasn't set. That is kind of scary to me. The GUI is an interpretation
ofwhat is there. Don't trust it that
much.joe-----Original Message-----From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Rocky HabeebSent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:18 PMTo:
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role
transferSusan,"THANK
YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"There
are a >LOTbuttoninstead>David Adner wrote:> I'm not
debating the effort it takes to make the change. I'm saying Idon't>
see the point in devoting whatever amount of effort it takes for >
something that's going to provide benefit only, IMO, an extremely
rare> case. And if that case happened, the corrective action is
also a > trivial process. And again, I'm not saying I don't see your
point; I > justdon't agree with it.>>>>
-----Original Message----->> From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bahta >>
Nathaniel V Contractor NASIC/SCNA>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30,
2005 12:32 PM>> To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer>>>> That
process is trivial in itself. It does not take much to
transfer>> the roles before you conduct maintenance on a server.
Why not do it?>> It will save you cleaning up metadata after you
seize a role of a >> failed operations master. Sounds like a stitch
in nine saves time >> concept to me. I do not intend on taking every
proactive measure >> either, but when it comes to the small and
quickly implemented >> measures that could save plenty of time, I
try to utilize all of them>> available.>>>>
Is that agreeable?>>>> Nathaniel Vincent
Bahta>>>> -----Original Message----->> From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David
Adner>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:24 PM>> To:
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role
transfer>>>> Any proper maintenance plan has a backout
plan and a recovery plan, >> so I am preparing for the possibility
of an unexpected problem. If >> I'm pulled into a dark room because
something goes wrong then I >> should feel confident I'll leave that
room with my hide mostly >> intact; it may be slightly singed, but I
can live with that. If >> management isn't the reasonable type then
that's a different issue.>>>> If your philosophy is to
take every proactive measure ahead of time >> possible, then that's
fine. I just don't see the point with regards >> to FSMO roles when
the recovery action is a relatively trivial >> process. This is
obviously a matter of personal preference so I'm >> not trying to
convince others to change. I just found the concept >> unusual so I
thought I'd share.>>>>>>> -----Original
Message----->>> From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of >>>
neil.ruston@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
10:16 AM>>> To: ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] FSMO role transfer>>>>>> I
would rather, as stated earlier, assess the risk and then act >>>
appropriately. The original poster never defined 'maintenance' in
>>> detail.>>>>>> The original post did
state that the box would be down for ~2 hours >>> for
maintenance. This is clearly more than a patch and
a>>>>> reboot. We've>>>>> been
over that scenario and concluded that it carries a lesser
risk.>>>>>> As joe said, if the maintenance all goes
badly wrong, do>>>>> you want
to>>>>> be pulled into a dark room and questioned as to
why you did not >>> prepare for that
eventuality?>>>>>>>>>
neil>>>>>>>>> -----Original
Message----->>> From:
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Susan
>>> Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]>>>
Sent: 30 November 2005 15:29>>> To:
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] FSMO
role transfer>>>>>> Okay define maintenance
please?>>>>>> Patching?>>> Service
Pack?>>> Applying QFEs?>>> Performance
tuning?>>> What?>>>>>> Is there a level
of maintenance that would cause you to move FSMO's >>> and
not?>>>>>> Like for example, if I'm patching, I've
tested the patch, I'm >>> reasonably expecting a favorable
outcome otherwise I wouldn't be >>> deploying, I have a
backup.>>>>>> neil.ruston@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
wrote:>>>>>>>>>> I think we've
missed the essence of the original post :)>>>>>>>
The DCs are>>>>>>> not just being rebooted, they
are being 'maintained' and>>>>>>> will be
down>>>>>>> for ~ 2 hours. That means to me, that
either a s/w or h/w>>>>>> change
is>>>>>> going to occur which could go horribly
wrong. Faced with this >>>> situation, I would definitely
transfer the roles.>>>> If the DC were merely being rebooted
and nothing else is>>>>>>> scheduled
to>>>>>>> occur, I would not transfer
roles.>>>> The above 2 scenarios are very different - if one
were to>>>>>> perform
a>>>>>> risk analysis the actions taken to mitigate
those risks would be >>>> suitably
different.>>>>
neil>>>>>>>>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------->>
->>>>>> -->>>> *From:*
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf
Of>>>>>>> *David
Adner>>>>>>> *Sent:* 29 November 2005
23:26>>>> *To:*
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir]
FSMO role transfer>>>>>>>> I would only agree
if you told me your DC's regularly>>>>>> fail to
come>>>>>> back after a reboot. And if you did tell
me that I'd have to say >>>> you're doing something
wrong.>>>> I suppose I don't consider rebooting a DC to be
quite the>>>>>>
dangerous>>>>>> act as others do. To what degree is
this taken? If it holds>>>>>>> a
standard>>>>>>>>>> Primary zone do
you transfer that role, too? If it's the>>>>>>>
PDCE of the>>>>>>> forest root domain and you
transfer the role, do you also>>>>>>>
reconfigure>>>>>>> the new PDCE to manually
synchronize time from an authoritative >>>> source? I mean, if
we're going to work under the>>>>>> assumption that
a>>>>>> reboot is a regularly catastrophic causing
event then>>>>>> it's
probably>>>>>> time to switch
OS's.>>>> Is it possible something unexpectedly horrible can
happen>>>>>>> as part of
a>>>>>>>>>> reboot? Sure. But it
better be the exception. And with>>>>>>> regards
to FSMO>>>>>>>>>> roles, which,
barring some specific technical requirement they be >>>>
readily available, the temporary outage of them is typically a
>>>> transparent event and shouldn't require
added>>>>>>> administrative
overhead>>>>>>> in transferring them back and
forth. Accepting that a>>>>>>
catastrophic>>>>>> event is an exception, then you
follow your documented and tested >>>> activities to recover
from that exception; ie: you seize>>>>>> the
roles,>>>>>> restore from backup,
etc.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------->>>
---------->>>>>>> *From:*
ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
*On>>>>>> Behalf Of
*Rich>>>>>> Milburn>>>> *Sent:*
Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:26 PM>>>> *To:*
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir]
FSMO role transfer>>>>>>>> Yeah but having
"seize the FSMOs instead of moving>>>>>> them" as
your>>>>>> fallback plan is like making sure you
have a current backup in>>>> case "yanking the power cord
instead of Start > Shutdown >>>>> Restart" causes file
system corruption
J>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
//------------------------------------------------------------>>>
---------->>> -///>>>>>>> ///Rich
Milburn///>>>> ///MCSE, Microsoft MVP - Directory
Services///>>>> Sr Network Analyst, Field Platform
Development>>>> Applebee's International,
Inc.//>>>> //4551 W. 107th St//>>>> //Overland
Park//, KS 66207//>>>>
//913-967-2819//>>>>>>>>>>>
//------------------------------------------------------------>>>
---------->>> //>>>>>>> ///"I love
the smell of red herrings in the morning"
->>>>>>>
anonymous//>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------->>
->>>>>> -->>>>>>>>
*From:* ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
[mailto:ActiveDir-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of>>>>
*ChuckGaff@xxxxxxx>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2005
11:56 AM>>>> *To:*
ActiveDir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir]
FSMO role transfer>>>>>>>> If something went
wrong you could still seize the FSMO>>>>>>> roles
as an>>>>>>> option rather than doing a transfer.
Of course the>>>>>>> procedures
for>>>>>>> all of these for the 5 FSMOs should be
documented just in case>>>>
needed..>>>>>>>>
Chuck>>>>>>>>
/>>>>>>>>>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------->>>
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http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir%40mail.activedir.org/>>--Letting
your vendors set your risk analysis these days?=== message truncated
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