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Subject: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297
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chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/22/2009 8:21 PM  
Next Monday I'm sitting for the 70-297 for the third time this year, as I failed the first two times. Before the first two attempts I used practice tests (which I passed), the Microsoft Press Kit book, a test network and I briefly skimmed the TechNet documentation.



It's been about six plus months since the last time I took the test. I've spent that time reading and taking notes on TechNet's Designing and Deploying Directory Services, Designing and Deploying Network Services, and Designing and Deploying Security Services. I'm also still working with the test network, and I've asked every Microsoft trainer/specialist I've encountered a) if they took the exam and b) if they have any suggestions for passing it. The answers weren't encouraging.



I've taken the week off from work to finish reading the TechNet documentation (still finishing up Design and Deployment of Directory Services, Network Services and most of Security Services), review my notes, work with the test network I've set up and ask everyone who may have taken this exam for suggestions on how to pass. Hence this email.



Once I pass this, I have one more test before obtaining 2003 MCSE status. I'd really like to pass this time so I can move on to the next (and start prepping for the 2008 upgrade exams), so if you've taken the exam and have suggestions, tips, to-dos or to-don'ts, please chime in?



Thanks in advance,





bdesmondUser is Offline

Posts:1049

11/22/2009 8:25 PM  
The printouts you get from the exam place show relative percentages in different categories. Was there a particular area you needed to focus on?

I took this probably 5 years ago so I don't really remember anything about it, but, looking at the objectives, it looks like there's little hands-on content, all paper stuff. One thing that might help as a strategy is when you get the questions with the exhibits, tables, and other piles of information, take some notes on the little whiteboard they give you so you can refer back and also think it through as you sketch it out.

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com<mailto:brian@briandesmond.com>

c - 312.731.3132

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297


Next Monday I'm sitting for the 70-297 for the third time this year, as I failed the first two times. Before the first two attempts I used practice tests (which I passed), the Microsoft Press Kit book, a test network and I briefly skimmed the TechNet documentation.



It's been about six plus months since the last time I took the test. I've spent that time reading and taking notes on TechNet's Designing and Deploying Directory Services, Designing and Deploying Network Services, and Designing and Deploying Security Services. I'm also still working with the test network, and I've asked every Microsoft trainer/specialist I've encountered a) if they took the exam and b) if they have any suggestions for passing it. The answers weren't encouraging.



I've taken the week off from work to finish reading the TechNet documentation (still finishing up Design and Deployment of Directory Services, Network Services and most of Security Services), review my notes, work with the test network I've set up and ask everyone who may have taken this exam for suggestions on how to pass. Hence this email.



Once I pass this, I have one more test before obtaining 2003 MCSE status. I'd really like to pass this time so I can move on to the next (and start prepping for the 2008 upgrade exams), so if you've taken the exam and have suggestions, tips, to-dos or to-don'ts, please chime in?



Thanks in advance,





chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/22/2009 9:02 PM  
Unfortunately I left those at work. I think that one of the areas that I needed improvement was in determining the directory structure, but I can't be sure.

I do remember feeling that when I tried to jot notes using the whiteboard, the time seemed to run out faster. And the notes I took didn't help to answer the question...I was always flipping back to the case study to find the answers to the questions....particularly the ones that started "based on the administrative/business/organizational requirements..."

________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Brian Desmond [brian@briandesmond.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:24 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

The printouts you get from the exam place show relative percentages in different categories. Was there a particular area you needed to focus on?

I took this probably 5 years ago so I don’t really remember anything about it, but, looking at the objectives, it looks like there’s little hands-on content, all paper stuff. One thing that might help as a strategy is when you get the questions with the exhibits, tables, and other piles of information, take some notes on the little whiteboard they give you so you can refer back and also think it through as you sketch it out.

Thanks,
Brian Desmond
brian@briandesmond.com<mailto:brian@briandesmond.com>

c – 312.731.3132

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:19 PM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297


Next Monday I'm sitting for the 70-297 for the third time this year, as I failed the first two times. Before the first two attempts I used practice tests (which I passed), the Microsoft Press Kit book, a test network and I briefly skimmed the TechNet documentation.



It's been about six plus months since the last time I took the test. I've spent that time reading and taking notes on TechNet's Designing and Deploying Directory Services, Designing and Deploying Network Services, and Designing and Deploying Security Services. I'm also still working with the test network, and I've asked every Microsoft trainer/specialist I've encountered a) if they took the exam and b) if they have any suggestions for passing it. The answers weren't encouraging.



I've taken the week off from work to finish reading the TechNet documentation (still finishing up Design and Deployment of Directory Services, Network Services and most of Security Services), review my notes, work with the test network I've set up and ask everyone who may have taken this exam for suggestions on how to pass. Hence this email.



Once I pass this, I have one more test before obtaining 2003 MCSE status. I'd really like to pass this time so I can move on to the next (and start prepping for the 2008 upgrade exams), so if you've taken the exam and have suggestions, tips, to-dos or to-don'ts, please chime in?



Thanks in advance,





tonyszkoUser is Offline

Posts:140

11/22/2009 9:10 PM  
My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)

chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/22/2009 9:39 PM  
I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)
davewadeUser is Offline

Posts:137

11/23/2009 12:01 AM  

In order to pass this examination you need to be able to pick out the design criteria from the scenarios as recommended by Microsoft. If you are familiar with the design criteria these should leap off the paper as you read through the scenarios. Know how to decide on how many Forests, Domains, OUs and SITES you need. You should be able to almost sketch the design as you read the scenario.

In order to learn the criteria I recommend that read the Microsoft Active Directory design guides and learn the criteria for deciding how many Forests, Domains, OU's and Sites you need. Unfortunately from what I can see the documentation is now disparate. The basic design guide at :-

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727085.aspx

is still for windows/2000, however the basic information hasn't change for 2003. I can't find an updated guide for 2003 only descriptions of the extra features which you will also need to learn. Remember that you will be examined on the basis of these recommendations, not on the opinions of MPVs or folks on lists like this.

Dave




________________________________

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sun 22/11/2009 21:33
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297



I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)






**********************************************************************
Do you know someone who makes you Proud of Stockport? Is there someone who goes out of their way to make our borough a special place? Then nominate them for an award in our 2010 citizens awards by going to www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport. Entries close on December 17.

This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act.

If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.query@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system.

Thank you.

http://www.stockport.gov.uk
**********************************************************************


kenUser is Offline

Posts:196

11/23/2009 5:08 AM  
Hi,

My strategy for passing that exam was to read the questions first, then skim through the scenario looking for items that will answer the questions.

If you read the scenarios first, trying to memorise every detail (and most of the details will end up being irrelevant to the questions) you'll just run out of time.

As Tomasz has pointed out, half the time (or maybe that might be an exaggeration) the answers are there. If you can knock off 3/4 of the questions straight away, that gives you time to hunt for the best answers to the remaining questions for that scenario.

Cheers
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 5:33 AM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).


chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/23/2009 2:25 PM  
Hey,
Thanks for the tip...that's one I'm seeing more than others when Googling for tips and suggestions.
Do you read all of the questions first or do you read them and refer back one at a time?

Thanks,
________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer [Ken@adOpenStatic.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:07 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Hi,

My strategy for passing that exam was to read the questions first, then skim through the scenario looking for items that will answer the questions.

If you read the scenarios first, trying to memorise every detail (and most of the details will end up being irrelevant to the questions) you'll just run out of time.

As Tomasz has pointed out, half the time (or maybe that might be an exaggeration) the answers are there. If you can knock off 3/4 of the questions straight away, that gives you time to hunt for the best answers to the remaining questions for that scenario.

Cheers
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 5:33 AM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).
chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/23/2009 2:37 PM  
Dave,
I've been studying this: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc787010%28WS.10%29.aspx
When I was working with the Transcender exams, the study recommendations referenced this link, among others.

>From what I remember of the last exam, there were also a number of network design and security design questions...on WINS and DHCP server placement and remote client access. I've been reading the Network design and deployment TechNet guides...are you saying I should forget those and focus on the Directory design and deployment guides?

Cynthia Haselton
University of Chicago
NSIT/DCS
w: 773.702.2963
p: 773.652.0065
txt: 7736520065@page.metrocall.com<mailto:7736520065@page.metrocall.com>
________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade [dave.wade@stockport.gov.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:00 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297


In order to pass this examination you need to be able to pick out the design criteria from the scenarios as recommended by Microsoft. If you are familiar with the design criteria these should leap off the paper as you read through the scenarios. Know how to decide on how many Forests, Domains, OUs and SITES you need. You should be able to almost sketch the design as you read the scenario.

In order to learn the criteria I recommend that read the Microsoft Active Directory design guides and learn the criteria for deciding how many Forests, Domains, OU's and Sites you need. Unfortunately from what I can see the documentation is now disparate. The basic design guide at :-

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727085.aspx

is still for windows/2000, however the basic information hasn't change for 2003. I can't find an updated guide for 2003 only descriptions of the extra features which you will also need to learn. Remember that you will be examined on the basis of these recommendations, not on the opinions of MPVs or folks on lists like this.

Dave




________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sun 22/11/2009 21:33
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297


I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)


**********************************************************************
Do you know someone who makes you Proud of Stockport? Is there someone who goes out of their way to make our borough a special place? Then nominate them for an award in our 2010 citizens awards by going to www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport. Entries close on December 17.
This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act.
If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.query@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system.
Thank you.
http://www.stockport.gov.uk
**********************************************************************

kenUser is Offline

Posts:196

11/23/2009 2:39 PM  
I read all the questions first. I'm reasonably good at remembering a lot of data for short periods of time.

I wouldn't read one question and then hunt for the answer. Then read the second, and hunt for the answer.

Read all the questions, then skim through the scenario. Hopefully you can knock off several of the questions easily. Then you have the rest of the time for that scenario to knock off a few more of the not-so-obvious answers, and hopefully that will add up to 70-80% for that scenario, which is all you need to pass.

Cheers
Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 10:24 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Hey,
Thanks for the tip...that's one I'm seeing more than others when Googling for tips and suggestions.
Do you read all of the questions first or do you read them and refer back one at a time?

Thanks,
________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer [Ken@adOpenStatic.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:07 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Hi,

My strategy for passing that exam was to read the questions first, then skim through the scenario looking for items that will answer the questions.

If you read the scenarios first, trying to memorise every detail (and most of the details will end up being irrelevant to the questions) you'll just run out of time.

As Tomasz has pointed out, half the time (or maybe that might be an exaggeration) the answers are there. If you can knock off 3/4 of the questions straight away, that gives you time to hunt for the best answers to the remaining questions for that scenario.

Cheers
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 5:33 AM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

kenUser is Offline

Posts:196

11/23/2009 2:51 PM  
You will have to have a grasp of those other bits-n-pieces as well. You need to have a grasp (but not necessarily an in-depth knowledge) of all the stuff listed on this page: http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/exam.aspx?ID=70-297&locale=en-us#tab2

Cheers
Ken

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 10:37 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Dave,
I've been studying this: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc787010%28WS.10%29.aspx
When I was working with the Transcender exams, the study recommendations referenced this link, among others.

>From what I remember of the last exam, there were also a number of network design and security design questions...on WINS and DHCP server placement and remote client access. I've been reading the Network design and deployment TechNet guides...are you saying I should forget those and focus on the Directory design and deployment guides?

Cynthia Haselton
University of Chicago
NSIT/DCS
w: 773.702.2963
p: 773.652.0065
txt: 7736520065@page.metrocall.com<mailto:7736520065@page.metrocall.com>
________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade [dave.wade@stockport.gov.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:00 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

In order to pass this examination you need to be able to pick out the design criteria from the scenarios as recommended by Microsoft. If you are familiar with the design criteria these should leap off the paper as you read through the scenarios. Know how to decide on how many Forests, Domains, OUs and SITES you need. You should be able to almost sketch the design as you read the scenario.

In order to learn the criteria I recommend that read the Microsoft Active Directory design guides and learn the criteria for deciding how many Forests, Domains, OU's and Sites you need. Unfortunately from what I can see the documentation is now disparate. The basic design guide at :-

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727085.aspx

is still for windows/2000, however the basic information hasn't change for 2003. I can't find an updated guide for 2003 only descriptions of the extra features which you will also need to learn. Remember that you will be examined on the basis of these recommendations, not on the opinions of MPVs or folks on lists like this.

Dave




________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sun 22/11/2009 21:33
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)
**********************************************************************
Do you know someone who makes you Proud of Stockport? Is there someone who goes out of their way to make our borough a special place? Then nominate them for an award in our 2010 citizens awards by going to www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport<http://www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport>. Entries close on December 17.
This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act.
If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.query@stockport.gov.uk<mailto:email.query@stockport.gov.uk> and then permanently remove it from your system.
Thank you.
http://www.stockport.gov.uk
**********************************************************************

pbbergsUser is Offline

Posts:345

11/23/2009 2:51 PM  
This is exactly the same way I look at this type of a test. Find out the questions and then read scenario. Otherwise too much info in too short a period of time.

I always prep with Transender, the flashcards do a good of specific details as well. I get all answers correct and understand them before I attempt a test.


Thanks

Paul



-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Hi,

My strategy for passing that exam was to read the questions first, then skim through the scenario looking for items that will answer the questions.

If you read the scenarios first, trying to memorise every detail (and most of the details will end up being irrelevant to the questions) you'll just run out of time.

As Tomasz has pointed out, half the time (or maybe that might be an exaggeration) the answers are there. If you can knock off 3/4 of the questions straight away, that gives you time to hunt for the best answers to the remaining questions for that scenario.

Cheers
Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, 23 November 2009 5:33 AM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).



davewadeUser is Offline

Posts:137

11/23/2009 3:03 PM  
Cynthia,

Unfiortunatly you can't forget anything!. That's the problem with this
exam! The exam covers both. Just look at :-

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/exam.aspx?ID=70-297#tab2

and see who much is covered under the sub-heading:-

"Creating the Logical Design for an Active Directory Infrastructure"

So I would be looking both in great detail, sorry :-(

Dave Wade



________________________________

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia
Haselton
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:37
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing
70-297


Dave,
I've been studying this:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc787010%28WS.10%29.aspx
When I was working with the Transcender exams, the study
recommendations referenced this link, among others.

From what I remember of the last exam, there were also a number
of network design and security design questions...on WINS and DHCP
server placement and remote client access. I've been reading the
Network design and deployment TechNet guides...are you saying I should
forget those and focus on the Directory design and deployment guides?



Cynthia Haselton

University of Chicago

NSIT/DCS

w: 773.702.2963

p: 773.652.0065

txt: 7736520065@page.metrocall.com
<mailto:7736520065@page.metrocall.com>

________________________________

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade
[dave.wade@stockport.gov.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:00 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing
70-297



In order to pass this examination you need to be able to pick
out the design criteria from the scenarios as recommended by Microsoft.
If you are familiar with the design criteria these should leap off the
paper as you read through the scenarios. Know how to decide on how many
Forests, Domains, OUs and SITES you need. You should be able to almost
sketch the design as you read the scenario.

In order to learn the criteria I recommend that read the
Microsoft Active Directory design guides and learn the criteria for
deciding how many Forests, Domains, OU's and Sites you need.
Unfortunately from what I can see the documentation is now disparate.
The basic design guide at :-

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727085.aspx

is still for windows/2000, however the basic information hasn't
change for 2003. I can't find an updated guide for 2003 only
descriptions of the extra features which you will also need to learn.
Remember that you will be examined on the basis of these
recommendations, not on the opinions of MPVs or folks on lists like
this.

Dave





________________________________

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia
Haselton
Sent: Sun 22/11/2009 21:33
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing
70-297



I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question,
2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are
case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to
answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go
back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go
back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko
[t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing
70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam
is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer
is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to
answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based
exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind.
In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes
is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)




**********************************************************************
Do you know someone who makes you Proud of Stockport? Is there
someone who goes out of their way to make our borough a special place?
Then nominate them for an award in our 2010 citizens awards by going to
www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport. Entries close on December 17.
This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential
and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom
they
are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to
disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of
Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of
the exemptions in the Act.
If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT,
Business Services via email.query@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently
remove it from your system.
Thank you.
http://www.stockport.gov.uk

**********************************************************************


DaemonRootUser is Offline

Posts:192

11/23/2009 3:07 PM  
Try out http://www.examcollection.com/70-297.html



~D~



From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:03 AM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297



Cynthia,



Unfiortunatly you can't forget anything!. That's the problem with this exam!
The exam covers both. Just look at :-



http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/exam.aspx?ID=70-297#tab2



and see who much is covered under the sub-heading:-



"Creating the Logical Design for an Active Directory Infrastructure"



So I would be looking both in great detail, sorry :-(



Dave Wade





_____

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:37
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Dave,

I've been studying this:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc787010%28WS.10%29.aspx

When I was working with the Transcender exams, the study recommendations
referenced this link, among others.



>From what I remember of the last exam, there were also a number of network
design and security design questions...on WINS and DHCP server placement and
remote client access. I've been reading the Network design and deployment
TechNet guides...are you saying I should forget those and focus on the
Directory design and deployment guides?



Cynthia Haselton

University of Chicago

NSIT/DCS

w: 773.702.2963

p: 773.652.0065

txt: 7736520065@page.metrocall.com

_____

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade
[dave.wade@stockport.gov.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:00 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297



In order to pass this examination you need to be able to pick out the design
criteria from the scenarios as recommended by Microsoft. If you are familiar
with the design criteria these should leap off the paper as you read through
the scenarios. Know how to decide on how many Forests, Domains, OUs and
SITES you need. You should be able to almost sketch the design as you read
the scenario.



In order to learn the criteria I recommend that read the Microsoft Active
Directory design guides and learn the criteria for deciding how many
Forests, Domains, OU's and Sites you need. Unfortunately from what I can see
the documentation is now disparate. The basic design guide at :-



http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727085.aspx



is still for windows/2000, however the basic information hasn't change for
2003. I can't find an updated guide for 2003 only descriptions of the extra
features which you will also need to learn. Remember that you will be
examined on the basis of these recommendations, not on the opinions of MPVs
or folks on lists like this.



Dave









_____

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sun 22/11/2009 21:33
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour
exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies
with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the
questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the
case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read
the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org
[activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko
[t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)

**********************************************************************

Do you know someone who makes you Proud of Stockport? Is there someone who
goes out of their way to make our borough a special place? Then nominate
them for an award in our 2010 citizens awards by going to
www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport. Entries close on December 17.

This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and

intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they

are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose
this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act
2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in
the Act.

If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business
Services via email.query@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it
from your system.

Thank you.

http://www.stockport.gov.uk

**********************************************************************


kevinbrunsonUser is Offline

Posts:75

11/23/2009 6:06 PM  
Lots of the design questions are not necessarily based on best technical answer, but priorities. If you read the question and then answer based on the first place in the case study that seems to relate to the question, you will probably end up wrong. They intentionally place different priorities at different places in the case study. The CEO may have one set of priorities and the IT Managers a different set of priorities. If the CEO's top priority conflicts with that of the IT Managers, you need to remember who is in charge. You may find that two priorities are in direct conflict with each other. If the CEO wants to use BIND DNS because he heard that is the best, and that is the only thing in the whole project he cares about regardless of cost, but the IT Dept would like to play some with AD Integrated zones if that is an option, then you should probably forget about the fact that the IT dept wants AD integ, and go with BIND.

In light of that, I don't think you can just skim the case study. But it definitely makes sense to read the questions first, then as you read through the case study make notes on what you find that seems to answer the questions. Once you are done you can reconcile the different priorities and try to find an answer that matches.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:33 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)

chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/23/2009 7:05 PM  
Okay, so one "have a grasp of" and one "know everything". I feel better now. Wait....

Maybe this would be a better question:
I've got a week off to finish preparing for this exam. If you were in my shoes, what would you focus on?

Here's what I've covered in detail (read, taken notes, done in VM Environment):
Designing a TCP/IP Network
Deploying DHCP
Deploying DNS
Deploying WINS
Planning an Active Directory Deployment Project
Designing the Active Directory Logical Structure
Designing the Site Topology
Planning Domain Controller Capacity
Enabling Advanced Windows Server 2003 Active Directory Features
Deploying the Windows Server 2003 Forest Root Domain
Deploying Windows Server 2003 Regional Domains
Upgrading Windows NT 4.0 Domains to Windows Server 2003 AD (first part)

The above are sections in the following links:
Designing and Deploying Directory and Security Services<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc787010%28WS.10%29.aspx>
Deploying Network Services<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc775745%28WS.10%29.aspx>
________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade [dave.wade@stockport.gov.uk]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:02 AM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Cynthia,

Unfiortunatly you can't forget anything!. That's the problem with this exam! The exam covers both. Just look at :-

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/exam.aspx?ID=70-297#tab2

and see who much is covered under the sub-heading:-

"Creating the Logical Design for an Active Directory Infrastructure"

So I would be looking both in great detail, sorry :-(

Dave Wade


________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: 23 November 2009 14:37
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Dave,
I've been studying this: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc787010%28WS.10%29.aspx
When I was working with the Transcender exams, the study recommendations referenced this link, among others.

>From what I remember of the last exam, there were also a number of network design and security design questions...on WINS and DHCP server placement and remote client access. I've been reading the Network design and deployment TechNet guides...are you saying I should forget those and focus on the Directory design and deployment guides?

Cynthia Haselton
University of Chicago
NSIT/DCS
w: 773.702.2963
p: 773.652.0065
txt: 7736520065@page.metrocall.com<mailto:7736520065@page.metrocall.com>
________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Dave Wade [dave.wade@stockport.gov.uk]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:00 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297


In order to pass this examination you need to be able to pick out the design criteria from the scenarios as recommended by Microsoft. If you are familiar with the design criteria these should leap off the paper as you read through the scenarios. Know how to decide on how many Forests, Domains, OUs and SITES you need. You should be able to almost sketch the design as you read the scenario.

In order to learn the criteria I recommend that read the Microsoft Active Directory design guides and learn the criteria for deciding how many Forests, Domains, OU's and Sites you need. Unfortunately from what I can see the documentation is now disparate. The basic design guide at :-

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb727085.aspx

is still for windows/2000, however the basic information hasn't change for 2003. I can't find an updated guide for 2003 only descriptions of the extra features which you will also need to learn. Remember that you will be examined on the basis of these recommendations, not on the opinions of MPVs or folks on lists like this.

Dave




________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sun 22/11/2009 21:33
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297


I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)


**********************************************************************
Do you know someone who makes you Proud of Stockport? Is there someone who goes out of their way to make our borough a special place? Then nominate them for an award in our 2010 citizens awards by going to www.stockport.gov.uk/proudofstockport. Entries close on December 17.
This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act.
If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.query@stockport.gov.uk and then permanently remove it from your system.
Thank you.
http://www.stockport.gov.uk
**********************************************************************

chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/23/2009 7:15 PM  
Thanks for bringing this up (about the priorities) as I'm sure this is one of those things that tripped me up when I first took the test...and the part that isn't covered well in the practice exams. I can handle clear cut technical requirements, but I get confused when one section says "I'm the CEO and I am the final word on this project" and another says, "I'm the IT Head, and while I know the CEO is the final word on this project, I don't feel he understands the needs of our department. We must implement x in order for y to be maintained". Especially when the IT department head's choice is technically correct and the CEO's choice is not.

That last example seems subjective to me, and the cases on the exam are more complicated than that. How do I determine the right answer? Especially when there is a timer ticking down in the background?

________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Brunson [kevinb@highergroundtech.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:04 PM
To: 'activedir@mail.activedir.org'
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Lots of the design questions are not necessarily based on best technical answer, but priorities. If you read the question and then answer based on the first place in the case study that seems to relate to the question, you will probably end up wrong. They intentionally place different priorities at different places in the case study. The CEO may have one set of priorities and the IT Managers a different set of priorities. If the CEO's top priority conflicts with that of the IT Managers, you need to remember who is in charge. You may find that two priorities are in direct conflict with each other. If the CEO wants to use BIND DNS because he heard that is the best, and that is the only thing in the whole project he cares about regardless of cost, but the IT Dept would like to play some with AD Integrated zones if that is an option, then you should probably forget about the fact that the IT dept wants AD integ, and go with BIND.

In light of that, I don't think you can just skim the case study. But it definitely makes sense to read the questions first, then as you read through the case study make notes on what you find that seems to answer the questions. Once you are done you can reconcile the different priorities and try to find an answer that matches.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:33 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)
kevinbrunsonUser is Offline

Posts:75

11/23/2009 9:32 PM  
I think sometimes you have to distinguish between "technically correct" and "technically possible". Let's say the CEO only has one priority, but it is a little out there. For example, "datacenter cooling is expensive, but the dark side of the moon is always cold, so we need our mainframes on the dark side of the moon." If the CIO lists his priorities as "go with whatever the CEO says" and "high-speed network access between sites", it is safe to say that you don't have any real requirement to find a good ISP with lunar support. However, if the CEO has a high-priority request, it probably overrules other requests from other people farther down the line, as long as they are not illegal and are technically possible.

Most other MS exams test your ability to take hard facts and make objective decisions. The design exams test your ability to take an overwhelming quantity of soft facts (mixed with a few hard facts) and make subjective decisions based on your experience. To be able to pass this test you have to understand which requirements are actually requirements and which requirements are just a wish list. When requirements conflict you have to decide which requirements override the rest. Most questions on these tests require you to resolve those conflicts. It is easy to resolve a conflict when a business requirement is not technically possible; it is much more difficult when given 2 or more technically possible requirements that contradict each other. Remember that there are almost sure to be some design goals that cannot be achieved because some other goal precludes it.

Hope that helps
Kevin



-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:13 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Thanks for bringing this up (about the priorities) as I'm sure this is one of those things that tripped me up when I first took the test...and the part that isn't covered well in the practice exams. I can handle clear cut technical requirements, but I get confused when one section says "I'm the CEO and I am the final word on this project" and another says, "I'm the IT Head, and while I know the CEO is the final word on this project, I don't feel he understands the needs of our department. We must implement x in order for y to be maintained". Especially when the IT department head's choice is technically correct and the CEO's choice is not.

That last example seems subjective to me, and the cases on the exam are more complicated than that. How do I determine the right answer? Especially when there is a timer ticking down in the background?

________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Brunson [kevinb@highergroundtech.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:04 PM
To: 'activedir@mail.activedir.org'
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Lots of the design questions are not necessarily based on best technical answer, but priorities. If you read the question and then answer based on the first place in the case study that seems to relate to the question, you will probably end up wrong. They intentionally place different priorities at different places in the case study. The CEO may have one set of priorities and the IT Managers a different set of priorities. If the CEO's top priority conflicts with that of the IT Managers, you need to remember who is in charge. You may find that two priorities are in direct conflict with each other. If the CEO wants to use BIND DNS because he heard that is the best, and that is the only thing in the whole project he cares about regardless of cost, but the IT Dept would like to play some with AD Integrated zones if that is an option, then you should probably forget about the fact that the IT dept wants AD integ, and go with BIND.

In light of that, I don't think you can just skim the case study. But it definitely makes sense to read the questions first, then as you read through the case study make notes on what you find that seems to answer the questions. Once you are done you can reconcile the different priorities and try to find an answer that matches.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:33 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)

davewadeUser is Offline

Posts:137

11/23/2009 9:52 PM  
Oddly , after reading your list of things you had studied I would have said if you know all that stuff, then its time to look at examination technique. The answer will (usually) be in the question!. Re-Read the question and try to see which answer fits the question. If I remember properly there often hints in the question about which part of the scenario they wanted you to consider.

Dave Wade
0161 474 5456

________________________________

From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org on behalf of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Mon 23/11/2009 19:13
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297



Thanks for bringing this up (about the priorities) as I'm sure this is one of those things that tripped me up when I first took the test...and the part that isn't covered well in the practice exams. I can handle clear cut technical requirements, but I get confused when one section says "I'm the CEO and I am the final word on this project" and another says, "I'm the IT Head, and while I know the CEO is the final word on this project, I don't feel he understands the needs of our department. We must implement x in order for y to be maintained". Especially when the IT department head's choice is technically correct and the CEO's choice is not.

That last example seems subjective to me, and the cases on the exam are more complicated than that. How do I determine the right answer? Especially when there is a timer ticking down in the background?

________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Brunson [kevinb@highergroundtech.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:04 PM
To: 'activedir@mail.activedir.org'
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Lots of the design questions are not necessarily based on best technical answer, but priorities. If you read the question and then answer based on the first place in the case study that seems to relate to the question, you will probably end up wrong. They intentionally place different priorities at different places in the case study. The CEO may have one set of priorities and the IT Managers a different set of priorities. If the CEO's top priority conflicts with that of the IT Managers, you need to remember who is in charge. You may find that two priorities are in direct conflict with each other. If the CEO wants to use BIND DNS because he heard that is the best, and that is the only thing in the whole project he cares about regardless of cost, but the IT Dept would like to play some with AD Integrated zones if that is an option, then you should probably forget about the fact that the IT dept wants AD integ, and go with BIND.

In light of that, I don't think you can just skim the case study. But it definitely makes sense to read the questions first, then as you read through the case study make notes on what you find that seems to answer the questions. Once you are done you can reconcile the different priorities and try to find an answer that matches.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:33 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)






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chaseltonUser is Offline

Posts:94

11/23/2009 9:54 PM  
Wow. In your second paragraph, you've pretty much nailed my stumbling block in this exam. The key phrases: "overwhelming quantity of soft facts" and "subjective decisions". I don't have much of a problem quickly determining answers given hard facts and definite decisions, but soft facts and subjective decisions slows me down because the answers aren't as clear. And it seems as though they aren't clear by design. Plus, on top of all that, they limit the time you have to determine the answers.

No wonder I failed the first two times.

It's cruelly ironic that an exam evaluating your skill at a process that, by Microsoft's definition, takes weeks to complete, asks you to do the same...with similar information...in a matter of minutes. Designing an Active Directory environment takes careful planning, thought and consideration. Why then, does the exam force you to do the opposite? How does this test design skills?

I'm headed back to studying after sending this but to be honest, now I'm not sure how much value any additional studying will have. Thoughts?
________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Brunson [kevinb@highergroundtech.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:31 PM
To: 'activedir@mail.activedir.org'
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I think sometimes you have to distinguish between "technically correct" and "technically possible". Let's say the CEO only has one priority, but it is a little out there. For example, "datacenter cooling is expensive, but the dark side of the moon is always cold, so we need our mainframes on the dark side of the moon." If the CIO lists his priorities as "go with whatever the CEO says" and "high-speed network access between sites", it is safe to say that you don't have any real requirement to find a good ISP with lunar support. However, if the CEO has a high-priority request, it probably overrules other requests from other people farther down the line, as long as they are not illegal and are technically possible.

Most other MS exams test your ability to take hard facts and make objective decisions. The design exams test your ability to take an overwhelming quantity of soft facts (mixed with a few hard facts) and make subjective decisions based on your experience. To be able to pass this test you have to understand which requirements are actually requirements and which requirements are just a wish list. When requirements conflict you have to decide which requirements override the rest. Most questions on these tests require you to resolve those conflicts. It is easy to resolve a conflict when a business requirement is not technically possible; it is much more difficult when given 2 or more technically possible requirements that contradict each other. Remember that there are almost sure to be some design goals that cannot be achieved because some other goal precludes it.

Hope that helps
Kevin



-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 1:13 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Thanks for bringing this up (about the priorities) as I'm sure this is one of those things that tripped me up when I first took the test...and the part that isn't covered well in the practice exams. I can handle clear cut technical requirements, but I get confused when one section says "I'm the CEO and I am the final word on this project" and another says, "I'm the IT Head, and while I know the CEO is the final word on this project, I don't feel he understands the needs of our department. We must implement x in order for y to be maintained". Especially when the IT department head's choice is technically correct and the CEO's choice is not.

That last example seems subjective to me, and the cases on the exam are more complicated than that. How do I determine the right answer? Especially when there is a timer ticking down in the background?

________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Brunson [kevinb@highergroundtech.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:04 PM
To: 'activedir@mail.activedir.org'
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

Lots of the design questions are not necessarily based on best technical answer, but priorities. If you read the question and then answer based on the first place in the case study that seems to relate to the question, you will probably end up wrong. They intentionally place different priorities at different places in the case study. The CEO may have one set of priorities and the IT Managers a different set of priorities. If the CEO's top priority conflicts with that of the IT Managers, you need to remember who is in charge. You may find that two priorities are in direct conflict with each other. If the CEO wants to use BIND DNS because he heard that is the best, and that is the only thing in the whole project he cares about regardless of cost, but the IT Dept would like to play some with AD Integrated zones if that is an option, then you should probably forget about the fact that the IT dept wants AD integ, and go with BIND.

In light of that, I don't think you can just skim the case study. But it definitely makes sense to read the questions first, then as you read through the case study make notes on what you find that seems to answer the questions. Once you are done you can reconcile the different priorities and try to find an answer that matches.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [mailto:activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Cynthia Haselton
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:33 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

I understand how this would work with the standard 55 question, 2.5 hour exam, and I've used this approach for those exams.

Unfortunately, the format of this exam is different. There are case studies with questions, and a fixed amount of time (15-25 min) to answer the questions for the case study. Once time is up, you can't go back. And the case studies are extremely long; it is not possible to go back and re-read the entire case study with a question in mind.


________________________________________
From: activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org [activedir-owner@mail.activedir.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Onyszko [t.onyszko@w2k.pl]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:08 PM
To: activedir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Tips/Suggestions Needed for Passing 70-297

My advice I'm giving to every person who is approaching MS exam is ...
read the question carefully. In most cases key to correct answer is in a
question. So if You know the stuff and you are not sure what to answer
just go back to scenario description (if it is scenario based exam) or
just question and read it once again with this question in mind. In most
cases you will find a hint to good answer there (which sometimes is not
aligned with what I would do in real life :) ).

--
Tomasz Onyszko
http://www.w2k.pl/ - (PL)
http://blogs.dirteam.com/blogs/tomek/ - (EN)
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